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Raptor 700 Information => 700 Suspension Work => Topic started by: Krandall on October 24, 2008, 09:16:28 AM

Title: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on October 24, 2008, 09:16:28 AM
Figured I'd keep these 2 topics separate since it's 2 different things completely.

When running an oval track, would there be any advantage to keeping the inside shorter than the outside? Granted 1-2" isn't all that much of a difference. But. Wondering if anyone has experience in this area.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Colorado700R on October 24, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
i would be more intrested in tire size offset to create wedge, than altering suspension geometry. Atleast while your just learning.

Aaron
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on October 24, 2008, 10:28:05 AM
Well I was thinking, would it make sense to put the stock a-arms on in inside corner? And keep the +2 on the outside? the ishock shocks mount right up.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Colorado700R on October 24, 2008, 10:33:46 AM
Quote from: Krandall on October 24, 2008, 10:28:05 AM
Well I was thinking, would it make sense to put the stock a-arms on in inside corner? And keep the +2 on the outside? the ishock shocks mount right up.

1st off you want as low of CG as you can get, so the stock a-arms are out IMO, if anything a +1 or +2 forward a-arm on the right would be nice.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Temptation on October 24, 2008, 10:36:41 AM
The sprints run the offset put a 20 on the inside rear and a 22 on the outside they run them offfset like that, why wouldn't that work... ??? ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on October 24, 2008, 10:39:22 AM
Last season I looked at everyone's quads & don't remember seeing any offsets  ??? At least it wasn't obvious to the naked eye.

+1 forward a-arms will make the rear tires hook harder than stock a-arms.  Mixing arms could become a handling issue. IDK

Low & wide   :grin_nod:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on October 24, 2008, 10:52:34 AM
I don't understand the whole +1 forward thing.. What's the purpose? why not extend the rear? Isn't that the same thing? ??? ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on October 24, 2008, 10:55:52 AM
I was talking to Dave @ JD Performance & +1 Arms are popular with the sand guys & drags.  For a trail rider a longer swinger would balance the machine again.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on October 24, 2008, 10:59:41 AM
don't the sand guys extend the f*ck outta their swingers?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Colorado700R on October 24, 2008, 10:59:50 AM
Quote from: Temptation on October 24, 2008, 10:36:41 AM
The sprints run the offset put a 20 on the inside rear and a 22 on the outside they run them offfset like that, why wouldn't that work... ??? ???

I don't think the sprints are running a locked rear axle though ???  That would be my concern on a sport quad
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on October 24, 2008, 11:03:09 AM
With a extended swinger there's no wheelies but are they hooking up?
Sure add paddles or add forward arms & change the bikes weight distribution  ???
I've talked to Dave several times & I'm 99% sure I'm clear on what he told me  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Troy31 on October 24, 2008, 06:11:52 PM
If you are starting from a dead stop you don't want any type of stagger unless you really want to get to know the guy on your left. Also shorter swingarms work better for circle track, pulls harder out the corner.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on October 25, 2008, 07:36:43 AM
The Red 250R is super low
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Garrison%20Ice%20Racing/Stage1-1.jpg)

Notice how narrow my buddies (#760) Z400 is with stock axle & a-arms
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Garrison%20Ice%20Racing/DPStart.jpg)

Cheng Shin C826 20x11x9 rear tires mounted on stock rims, 9 x 8.5.  I would like to try these on a 9x9 rim & flatten out the tire profile, too rounded now. Front tires are 20" Razor MX's.  Z400 has 18" rears & 19" fronts
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Garrison%20Ice%20Racing/Reartire2.jpg)

Z400 would "skate" a little in the tight corners from too many studs
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Garrison%20Ice%20Racing/RaptorZ4002.jpg)


For Cheng Shins try Sully's connection (MAW) or Magic Racing in the Ice Racing section.

Anyone have experience with tire knifes?  I need to know what brand or style to buy
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on October 25, 2008, 08:09:08 AM


Anticipation of winter  :clap:
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Quad%20Winter%20Pics/2007-07-07WinterQuadPics_0038.jpg)
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Quad%20Winter%20Pics/366213-R1-08-8_009.jpg)

With 2.5#'s of rear tire pressure Dennis's cookie turned into a wheels up situation
:rofl:
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Quad%20Winter%20Pics/DPsshitty.jpg)

Sorry for the random whoring  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on October 31, 2008, 08:59:30 PM
Krandall buy my tires
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 02, 2008, 11:05:16 PM
 ??? ??? hwat kind? :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on November 04, 2008, 07:17:38 AM
Cheng Shin C-826 20x11x9 rear
Maxxis Razr MX 20x6x10 front
Can you clearly see the tires in my previously posted pics?
I could take pics or show them to you when I drop off that motorcycle.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 04, 2008, 08:03:48 AM
Why do you do this to me Bert..... :lol:


PM sent.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: FoundArealQuad on November 04, 2008, 08:46:00 AM
Don't buy his tires he needs to get out of the house and race :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 04, 2008, 08:52:28 AM


Bert. He says I cant.  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: FoundArealQuad on November 04, 2008, 08:54:44 AM
I thought he was going to race this year. It's not cheap to get into I know that+studding tires sucks A$$
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on November 04, 2008, 08:15:27 PM
Quote from: Polarass525 on November 04, 2008, 08:46:00 AM
Don't buy his tires he needs to get out of the house and race :thumbs:
Racing adds up the milage getting there, hard on the wallet.  I might have a local spot to race but not sure yet.  I really want tires with snowmobile studs for recreational riding this winter ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 14, 2008, 01:51:57 PM
Well, I think I've officially decided on what I'm doing for the front end, I think I'm going to run r6 shocks on the front. Instead of a lowering kit. 2 bolts and the shocks are out vs pulling the a-arms off completely. Fairly cheap investment. (like $70ish) for 2 fronts. looking into options for the rear. 8)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Flynbyu on November 14, 2008, 02:10:20 PM
Quote from: Colorado700R on October 24, 2008, 10:25:22 AM
i would be more intrested in tire size offset to create wedge, than altering suspension geometry. Atleast while your just learning.

Aaron


+1

Like how Sprint cars run.

Might ask Bama on his set up for flat track. It won't be much different for ice other than studded tires.

~Brian
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on November 14, 2008, 04:54:43 PM
Quote from: Krandall on November 14, 2008, 01:51:57 PM
Well, I think I've officially decided on what I'm doing for the front end, I think I'm going to run r6 shocks on the front. Instead of a lowering kit. 2 bolts and the shocks are out vs pulling the a-arms off completely. Fairly cheap investment. (like $70ish) for 2 fronts. looking into options for the rear. 8)

tie that bish down with a ratchet strap!   :lol:  That is the redneck  advice I got.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on November 14, 2008, 07:18:26 PM
09 schedule
http://www.mniceracing.com/

http://www.pro-ice.com/
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 14, 2008, 07:29:02 PM
I will FOR SURE be @ this one!!

  WSA EXTREME ICE & ATV

Date: Saturday, February 07, 2009 At 12:00:00 AM
Duration: 2 Days 

Forest Lake. It's about 1/2 hour from where the rappy's parked. 8)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Danny T on November 15, 2008, 04:57:27 PM
how tall are the r6 shocks? are they direct bolt up? that might be fun to have those and try them out one day!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 16, 2008, 10:11:16 AM
Quote from: dmx434343 on November 15, 2008, 04:57:27 PM
how tall are the r6 shocks? are they direct bolt up? that might be fun to have those and try them out one day!
Not sure the exact measurement eyelet to eyelet, but they are a direct bolt on I know that much, and from what I've been seeing poking around on e-bay, they are fairly cheap.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on November 21, 2008, 04:43:18 AM
Forest Lake Feb 7th - My weekend to work  :mad:    :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: bamaquad on November 29, 2008, 09:16:41 PM
Quote from: Krandall on November 14, 2008, 01:51:57 PM
Well, I think I've officially decided on what I'm doing for the front end, I think I'm going to run r6 shocks on the front. Instead of a lowering kit. 2 bolts and the shocks are out vs pulling the a-arms off completely. Fairly cheap investment. (like $70ish) for 2 fronts. looking into options for the rear. 8)

Put a 2 in spacer on the right front and right rear to offset it to +2 on the right side. Get the adjustable turnbucle off ebay for the rear.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 11:06:31 AM
  Krandall,
  Take a weekend and come over here.  We've got a very nice oval and road track on a lake just out of town, usually 15-25 bikes there every weekend. We also set up a drag strip.  First weekend of Feb is the big party.  I'll even put you up for the weekend.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 11:13:10 AM
   I bought a set of Honda 250 shocks off Ebay and they slip in the front real nice.  Lowered me about 4" and still have a little suspension.  I also made my own sway bar that works pretty well.  I flip the link on the rear suspension to drop me another few inches and call it good.  My problem is too much engine for the track, when I get on it I have a hard time holding traction.  New tires are here and I'm waiting for KK to ship the studs.  I nut every stud on the inside to hold them in tune better and it works pretty well.  I'm trying a new tire design on the front this year and am still deciding on how to stud them up,  If I load them up too much I'm afraid it'll skate.  Any opinions on that?


Sully
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 11:14:52 AM
  Oh yea,  I like the idea of spacing the right side out 2"!!  My problem is it really sucks when we jump to the road track...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 02, 2008, 11:24:32 AM
Sully what are you running for a front tire?
My front 20" Razor MX's have 300 studs each. I liked them but it would be nice to play around with tire/stud combos 
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 11:34:42 AM
  I'm going to try the Carlisle trail wolf.  Lots of meat down the center and plenty of room for studs.  I'm looking at a minimum of 182 per tire but there's lots of room for more, I'm just worried about them skating with too many studs...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 11:48:38 AM
  I ran dirt hooks last year which I love but I can't find any this year.  I also tried trimming my rears which is supposed to work better when the track gets messy but I didn't notice any difference.  I'm trying a new pattern on the rears this year so we'll see how it works.  Here's some pics of last years tires.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 02, 2008, 12:59:36 PM
damn, I'd love to get out there this winter!!!!

I'll hit up up if I do!!!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 01:07:16 PM
  Open invitation!  Come on a weekend when we're playing and you can come be a rock-star with us!  :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Flynbyu on December 02, 2008, 01:07:55 PM
He would rather be a groupie.

:lol:

~Brian
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 01:08:41 PM
   His boobies aren't big enough!   :clap: :rofl:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Flynbyu on December 02, 2008, 01:11:42 PM
This girl was in the crowd?

We're there dude.

~Brian
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 02, 2008, 01:14:46 PM
  That was last year.  I wasn't watching for the dude, I was enjoying the show...  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 02, 2008, 02:02:30 PM
I wasn't sure what would work so I left myself the option of adding studs. I liked they way they felt so I left them.
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Garrison%20Ice%20Racing/Fronttire.jpg)

The rears need some shaving to be effective for passing on the outside
(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee267/tqf1E/Garrison%20Ice%20Racing/Reartire.jpg)

Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 02, 2008, 02:12:59 PM
I think it's in Quad that has some good tips on how to stud the tires. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 02, 2008, 02:22:37 PM
Nobody showed me how to do it. I had no idea you would go right into the carcass. I bought 1/4" hardware screws. They made it two laps. :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 02, 2008, 04:17:50 PM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 02, 2008, 02:22:37 PM
Nobody showed me how to do it. I had no idea you would go right into the carcass. I bought 1/4" hardware screws. They made it two laps. :lol:
Mine didn't go throw the tire either....
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 05:29:30 AM
  I nut every stud on the rears with a plastic nut to hold them in, I've never lost a stud.   Here's some pics from last night, the tires are marked for studding.  Any suggestions?  The fronts will likely need more studs.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 05:31:34 AM
   Here's another little home-made gadget that is AWESOME for cornering.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 03, 2008, 08:21:52 AM
geez, great idea again w/ the pegs!

the more and more I see these the more and more I wanna get out therE! 8)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 08:25:49 AM
  We have some really great guys in the group,  One of our riders took the nationals last year in lower Wisconsin.  Tommy Johns.  Everyone is great about helping each other and it's just a good time riding and racing together without any pressure.  We all share ideas and it ends up helping everyone.   :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 03, 2008, 11:15:28 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 05:29:30 AM
  I nut every stud on the rears with a plastic nut to hold them in, I've never lost a stud.   Here's some pics from last night, the tires are marked for studding.  Any suggestions?  The fronts will likely need more studs.
Looks good Sully.  Will you be cutting your rear tires?

It was crazy last season looking at tires that had each knob cut on 4 sides to make a pyramid for the studs.  Those guys could pass on the outside when I tried passing & had lots of wheelspin  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 11:18:13 AM
  We keep the track pretty clear so that's not a big problem.  We have a ATV mounted power-brush that cleans the ice like glass.  BUT that may still be a good idea...... ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 11:24:23 AM
  I'm also running new studs this year that are 1/4" tall instead of 3/32" so that should help also.  Of course I'm no longer legal to run in most competitions but I'm not about that anyway.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 03, 2008, 12:06:19 PM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 11:18:13 AM
  We keep the track pretty clear so that's not a big problem.  We have a ATV mounted power-brush that cleans the ice like glass.  BUT that may still be a good idea...... ???
The Club we rode with is all about motorcycles & they create lots of ice shavings & ruts  :lol:  The ice shavings get fairly deep  ::)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 12:08:28 PM
  Our bikes stay mostly on the road course so the oval stays pretty clean.  I like the roar coarse a lot and there's plenty of straights to pass on if you're able.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 03, 2008, 01:21:45 PM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 11:24:23 AM
  I'm also running new studs this year that are 1/4" tall instead of 3/32" so that should help also.  Of course I'm no longer legal to run in most competitions but I'm not about that anyway.

1/4" is the rule in AMA/ATVA, Canadian racing typically requires shorter heads.  I use 1/2" or sometimes 5/8" shafts to keep the 1/4" heads in place but I don't use washers or anything other than the screw's bite to keep it in.

I like to keep my studs in the center of the knob as the center is the stiffer part, the edge of the knob is easier for a screw to move around in or get ripped out of.  I do however angle the screws for better bite in the corner and manually align the screw heads.


Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 01:25:39 PM
  Exactly!  a 5 degree tilt on the screw is amazing for not plugging up with ice.  The new KK's are 1/4" tall so I'm going to try them out this year.  They sent a few samples and they look SWEEEEEEET!  I run 1-1/4" and nut them on the inside to keep them in place.  It's a bitch but it's well worth it in the long run.  I just sold my old tires for $150.00 and they weren't missing a single screw after 2 years of hard running.  I thought the heightn rule was 3/32" on the studs, Maybe I'll be ok then.  :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 01:26:37 PM
  Tuning the heads helps a little depending on what type of track you're running.  I'm anal and keep them tuned.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 03, 2008, 01:44:35 PM
Sorry I misspoke, the AMA limit is 3/16" head,
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 03, 2008, 02:26:02 PM
You think though if you put the stud at what woudl be the front of the lug.. where it hits the ground first, you'd want it sitting there as when the lug flexes that's the part that's going to be staying near the ground more vs. the rear of the lug
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2008, 05:14:42 AM
  Good point,  I'm looking at staggering between the leading edge and closer to the center.  I'm going to really watch the stagger in all directions this time when I set up the rears, last time they were too much alligned and when I'd come off the line my tracks showed 8 destinct grooves which isn't as good.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2008, 08:19:09 AM
Quote from: Bert on December 03, 2008, 11:15:28 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2008, 05:29:30 AM
  I nut every stud on the rears with a plastic nut to hold them in, I've never lost a stud.   Here's some pics from last night, the tires are marked for studding.  Any suggestions?  The fronts will likely need more studs.
Looks good Sully.  Will you be cutting your rear tires?

It was crazy last season looking at tires that had each knob cut on 4 sides to make a pyramid for the studs.  Those guys could pass on the outside when I tried passing & had lots of wheelspin  :lol:


   Bert you bastard!   Now you've got me thinking about cutting my rears into piramids!  :mad:   Any other thoughts on that?????
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 09:17:00 AM
When I get home tonight i'll write up what it says in QUAD about the pyramids. It said something about getting the most bite possible.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2008, 09:23:27 AM
  That would be great!  My studs won't be in for a week so I have time to do some trimming.  :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 04, 2008, 01:10:27 PM
Thanks for passing that info along Krandall  :thumbs:
I still haven't bought a hot knife for grooving.  They are like $80 on Ebay.
Not sure I want to remove my studs, pyramid the knobs & restud & nut. Pretty sure the tires have another year on them  ???  :lol:
Decisions....
 

Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2008, 01:13:37 PM
  If you pull the studs, they'll never hold air.  Been there.    one of my customers has a commercial tire groover that works slick as shit so I'll be doing that this weekend.  :thumbs:   It's all your fault Bert,  I wasn't going to get that elaborate this time but now............

   KK says the studs should ship next Wed so we're cutting it way close!  We're plowing the track this Sat morning.  :grin_nod:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 04, 2008, 01:23:11 PM
I used 1/2 studs on all 4 tires & never went through the tire carcass.  It really seems like a hassle when I could just start over with new Cheng Shins,longer studs & nuts. I doubt that'll happen this year. If I build a set of tires this year they will have snowmobile studs for recreatinal riding   :lol:

On the rears I was thinking about the outside row, only cut 2 sides so the knob can sweep snow away from the tire in corners. Do you understand what I mean Sully?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2008, 01:25:18 PM
  Yea,  it makes sense accept your rolling forward pretty quick so there's not much side slide going on...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2008, 01:27:06 PM
   I'm not going to go too crazy on the cutting, maybe just taper tham a little on all sides.  Got to do something to keep busy till the studs show up.
   I also doubt if I'll nut the front tires this time, they don't have near the torque on them that the rears do and that's a but-load of work nutting all them studs.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 01:30:29 PM
How does snowmobile studs work on tires? Seen anyone do it?

Can't say I've seen that before but seems pretty wicked  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 04, 2008, 01:38:49 PM
Quote from: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 01:30:29 PM
How does snowmobile studs work on tires? Seen anyone do it?

Can't say I've seen that before but seems pretty wicked  :lol:
I don't know but I want my James Bond tires  :lol: Haven't seen it done in person either.  On packed snow I didn't feel my studded tires did much but spin. I was thinking 1/2 studs all the way around  ???  I need a great deal on snowmobile studs, they seem pricey

Sully the bikes on the road course make way to much shredded ice for my liking. The tight corners end up being almost single track & passing can be done with my inside tires on ice and the outside tires in the marbles.  For me that meant tire spin & the quad pulling to the outside.  :lol: It sucked.  Last year the ice was uneven & after they plowed  there were still spots with ice shavings.....I wish they had a hydro broom
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 04, 2008, 02:30:46 PM
Quote from: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 01:30:29 PM
How does snowmobile studs work on tires? Seen anyone do it?

Can't say I've seen that before but seems pretty wicked  :lol:

Pretty common, straight line only.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v120/Maddog56/ATV/ice_piks.jpg)

(http://www.snowmobiletrails.com/moto/images/close_up_of_back_tire.jpg)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 02:32:32 PM
Is there such a thing as a "rogue" class that allows it that you're aware of?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 04, 2008, 02:35:42 PM
Quote from: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 02:32:32 PM
Is there such a thing as a "rogue" class that allows it that you're aware of?

Not in District 14 or the AMA/ATVA rules.  Nothing over 3/16" sticking out for oval track racing.

Find your local district website, the class rules should be posted.  If it's not AMA/ATVA sanctioned, then check with the Promoter putting on the race(s).
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 04, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Jeebus M.D. That looks like something out of "Mad Max" :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 04, 2008, 02:41:13 PM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 04, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Jeebus M.D. That looks like something out of "Mad Max" :lol:

Didn't turn until you broke traction, then it just chewed up the track and spit huge ice chunks everywhere.  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
freaking sweet!!!!

I need to figure out something to do w/ my old stock rears. they are basically slicks from the big burnout I did with them...... I'd hate to just throw them away since they still hold air. ???


Thoughts?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 04, 2008, 02:43:52 PM
Quote from: Mad Dog on December 04, 2008, 02:41:13 PM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 04, 2008, 02:36:51 PM
Jeebus M.D. That looks like something out of "Mad Max" :lol:

Didn't turn until you broke traction, then it just chewed up the track and spit huge ice chunks everywhere.  :lol:

Noice! :lol:

Krandall: Yeah, that is what I did with my balding stockers. Works fine. But, I am not ever going to be competing, just goofing off, and riding down the river.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 04, 2008, 02:52:21 PM
Quote from: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 02:42:09 PM
freaking sweet!!!!

I need to figure out something to do w/ my old stock rears. they are basically slicks from the big burnout I did with them...... I'd hate to just throw them away since they still hold air. ???


Thoughts?

less tread means less likely to hold air from screws, so sled studs may be the way to go.  Not sure if the radial belts would be an issue though.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 02:55:05 PM
Maybe I'll just take em' in and have the yfz tires put back on. those are the ones I was looking @ studdin for the winter.

I'm not yet set on racing this year. I'd like to at least rip around on the lake, and hit up one race that's near by (forest lake) next year.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 05, 2008, 05:07:02 AM
Quote from: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 02:55:05 PM
Maybe I'll just take em' in and have the yfz tires put back on. those are the ones I was looking @ studdin for the winter.

I'm not yet set on racing this year. I'd like to at least rip around on the lake, and hit up one race that's near by (forest lake) next year.

  And head over to the U.P. and visit Sully on their track......  :grin_nod:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 05, 2008, 05:09:41 AM
Quote from: Bert on December 04, 2008, 01:38:49 PM
Quote from: Krandall on December 04, 2008, 01:30:29 PM
How does snowmobile studs work on tires? Seen anyone do it?

Can't say I've seen that before but seems pretty wicked  :lol:
I don't know but I want my James Bond tires  :lol: Haven't seen it done in person either.  On packed snow I didn't feel my studded tires did much but spin. I was thinking 1/2 studs all the way around  ???  I need a great deal on snowmobile studs, they seem pricey

Sully the bikes on the road course make way to much shredded ice for my liking. The tight corners end up being almost single track & passing can be done with my inside tires on ice and the outside tires in the marbles.  For me that meant tire spin & the quad pulling to the outside.  :lol: It sucked.  Last year the ice was uneven & after they plowed  there were still spots with ice shavings.....I wish they had a hydro broom

   We have a sweeper and I kinda like it when the bikes chew up the tight corners, I can lay ny inside tires in the groove and I can corner like I'm on rails.   It gets boring going in a circle all the time so the road course is a nice break and you can get some serious speed going on the straits.  It's being laid out Sat morning so maybe I'll be able to post some pics next week.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 08, 2008, 07:30:01 PM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2008, 09:23:27 AM
  That would be great!  My studs won't be in for a week so I have time to do some trimming.  :)

Obviously I didn't do this when I got home.  :lol:

Here was the QUAD Cold Weather Machine Tips:

#1
Did you know that if you place multiple studs toward the outside of the tire, it helps clear snow better and helps to pprevent the tire from getting all packed up with sniw and ice? NOW YOU DO!


#2
Ripped Out!
It's inevitable when using studs on a tier that one of them is sooner or later going to get ripped out. Don't panic. Simply patch it like you would w/ a  nail in the tire (Tire plug) and put a new stud a littel farther away from the hole.


#3
Groove that tread:
Tip from Daryl Rath: He tapered each individual tread on the tire to get more bite by placing a stud @ the peak of every tread nub. This cool trick helps the tire get a bit more forward bit in the sloppy stuff.


#4
Groove the center (Front)
Another trick that Daryl Rath uses to prep his ice racing tires is this cool center tread groove trick he cuts the center tread slightly lower than the outter tread giving the tire a more flat profile thus more contact w/ the ice!


hope this helps you all :clap:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 05:26:11 AM
   Looks good,  I'm not into the theory of shaving the center of the steer tire, I've had flat and rounded fronts and I didn't like the flat at all. :(
   Here's my rears ready for studding.  4 hours with a tire groover.   :'(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 05:28:53 AM
  A few more pics.    The track is plowed and ready to go,  I went out last night for a few hours and cleaned it up a bit.  The road course is .9 miles long and has both tight and sweeping corners and a few long stretches to wind it out.  Pretty sweet!!   I'll try to get some pics this weekend of people running on it, my bike won't be ready for at least another week.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 09, 2008, 05:36:39 AM
Sully that looks very nice  :thumbs:
I predict you'll be beyond happy  8)
Nice Work  ;)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 05:40:23 AM
   Thanks.   On my last set I only did one side so we'll see how these do.    The ice is freaking PERFECT!  I was out last night and it's smooth and clear which means it doesn't have air bubbles in it making it soft.   I can't wait to get out there and rip it up!!!!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 09, 2008, 09:26:01 AM
Tires look good man. Now 4 more hours to go on the other one. :lol: :clap:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 09:33:06 AM
  Both are done, That un-cut one got cut when he was mounting it and it's trashed.  :mad:

  Now about 6-8 hours will be needed to stud and nut the tires.  Just waiting for my studs to show up.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 09:35:20 AM
   When I was plowing Sunday,  I could see the bottom of the lake thru the ice it is that clear!  The water is about 8' deep but it was so cool, it looked like I was just driving on clear open water.  I was happy to see some cracks so I knew how thick the ice was.  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 09, 2008, 09:39:14 AM
Thats how my wifes parents lake is this year. It's so clear, Nice we got a solid freeze before the snow came to make it a really pretty looking ice. And freakin baby's butt smooth.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 09:46:40 AM
   It's going to be a good year for riding.  Last year the ice was soft, this year it looks hard which will be nice.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 09, 2008, 11:27:15 AM
Quote from: Krandall on December 09, 2008, 09:39:14 AM
Thats how my wifes parents lake is this year. It's so clear, Nice we got a solid freeze before the snow came to make it a really pretty looking ice. And freakin baby's butt smooth.

Man with no baby makes "baby's butt" reference? Questions will be asked...... :lol: ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 11:29:08 AM
  I don't want to go there!!   :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 09, 2008, 01:17:31 PM
no comment.?  ::)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 01:22:09 PM
  and here when he was talking about knobbies and studs I was thinking tires..... ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 09, 2008, 01:23:56 PM
Quote from: Krandall on December 09, 2008, 01:17:31 PM
no comment.?  ::)

good plan. :lol:


Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 01:22:09 PM
  and here when he was talking about knobbies and studs I was thinking tires..... ???

I knew better....

you northerners are cracking me up with your ice discussion. Hard, soft, smooth. WTF it is F**king ice!

:lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 01:27:40 PM
   Just think of it as "special corn"  Iowa boy.  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 09, 2008, 01:32:15 PM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2008, 01:27:40 PM
   Just think of it as "special corn"  Iowa boy.  :lol:

:( I hate corn...but I like corn flakes....go figure  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 09, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 09, 2008, 01:23:56 PM


you northerners are cracking me up with your ice discussion. Hard, soft, smooth. WTF it is F**king ice!

:lol:
You'd think so but last year the ice here was soft. In South Dakota the ice was hard
???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 09, 2008, 02:00:26 PM
Quote from: Bert on December 09, 2008, 01:50:08 PM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 09, 2008, 01:23:56 PM


you northerners are cracking me up with your ice discussion. Hard, soft, smooth. WTF it is F**king ice!

:lol:
You'd think so but last year the ice here was soft. In South Dakota the ice was hard
???


:lol:

It is frozen water, it is cold...and I hate it. Classifying it makes it worse. :lol:

There are but two classifications for me. Will my quad fall through..or not. :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 09, 2008, 04:00:23 PM
It's like Meth....

You go out to Cali. You get the GOOD stuff... No let downs. Pure and clean.. It's Meth...

You go to Iowa.. You get the back woods barn sh*t mixed stuff... semi pure not so clean... It's meth...

Different makes and models. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 09, 2008, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 09, 2008, 02:00:26 PM
There are but two classifications for me. Will my quad fall through..or not. :lol:

Let's just say the guy going into the corner first is the one most likely to make it to the straightaway.

Dampness awaits those who let off...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 09, 2008, 09:05:51 PM
Quote from: Mad Dog on December 09, 2008, 04:04:20 PM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 09, 2008, 02:00:26 PM
There are but two classifications for me. Will my quad fall through..or not. :lol:

Let's just say the guy going into the corner first is the one most likely to make it to the straightaway.

Dampness awaits those who let off...


..and hypothermia. :lol:


Krandall, comparing ice to Meth. :lol:  We mix our $hit in Trailers here, not barns. Get it right! :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 09, 2008, 09:08:09 PM
you say tomato I say tomaahhhhto :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 10, 2008, 05:07:12 AM
   We got another 2-3" of snow yesterday so it's back out to plow the tracks.  :mad:   It'll be nice when we get more ice and can bring the trucks out, makes the job a lot quicker!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 17, 2008, 10:06:05 AM
MD.. Question...


So.. Tires (rear specifically)

I have my old set of YFZ's about 50-60% tread left. Do you think it'd be fine using those and studding them? Or would it be a better overall investment of ChenChings?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:10:48 AM
  I'd go with new tires.  If you're careful, they'll last a long time and why spend that much time and $ studding something that's not 100%?   
   I'll be nutting my rears tonight and should be ready to run this weekend.  :clap:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:12:19 AM
   If you're going on the cheap and running Golds or something I guess the old tires qould be ok.  I just spent $180 on studs alone plus nuts so I went with new tires front and back to do it.  The new KK's are kick-ass!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 17, 2008, 10:13:21 AM
See, I found this guy.

I was thinking about scoring the rears.... I just hate to spend money on new tires if it ends up being something so-so. ya know...
Is it possible to move studs around? or once their in. Their in?


http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/rvs/950730651.html
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:15:28 AM
   It's very dicey to un-stud a tire, I overstuded some fronts and removed about 10%. They leaked bad so I ditched them.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 17, 2008, 10:17:02 AM
You think a standard tire plug would be fine? ???

Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 17, 2008, 10:17:33 AM
Use the YFZs but beware that radial 2 ply tires will have a weaker sidewall and might be more prone to throwing screws than bias ply.  They won't be as good but they will work great to learn on and be a lot cheaper than buying new tires, wheels and screws.

Golds hold better than KK, they have a coarser thread.  KK are sharper, but the golds hold just as well in torn up tracks or soft ice.  It's only on clean hard ice that the KK are worth the thrown screws IMO.  But then again I'm not nutting any of mine and somewhere in the AMA rulebook I remember it saying cutting tires is a no-no, so I may not be the best resource on such fronts.


You can't unstud a tire, the tire will leak and the new screws will never hold in old holes...again with respect to not using nuts.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:21:35 AM
  I don't run AMA so cutting is ok but you're right about not being allowed.  My KK's are also not allowed since they're over 3/16" tall. I've never thrown a KK but I also nut my studs.  My new KK's are #12 shank instead of #8 so the'll hold quite well even without nutting and have a nuce HUGE washer built into the head.
  Golds don't have the edge that KK's have BUT they can also be re-sharpened quite easily.
I'll post some pics tomorrow of the tires with the studs in them.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:24:19 AM
Quote from: Krandall on December 17, 2008, 10:17:02 AM
You think a standard tire plug would be fine? ???



  You can plug them and put a stud somewhere else but that's a lot of plugs.  C/S tires are only $40-50 new.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 17, 2008, 10:26:05 AM
Fair enough. I think I'm going to nut the studs only for the reason being (2 ply) better safe than sorry. I think I figured out an alternative to the "standard" nuts. I was looking at some PVC tubing super small stuff that I think would work. ??? only reason, I couldn't find nuts on Dennis Kirks site.

I'll have to look into the AMA rules. I know rath cuts his tires they did a write up in last months QUAD about it...  but maybe he's not racing AMA

Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:34:51 AM
 I got my nuts from Lawson Products,  I work parts for a living so I've got some pretty good connections for odd stuff. :)
  Bring that bike ofer here this winter and play on our tracks!!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:36:51 AM
   I got kind of stupid yesterday and ordered 2" spacers for all 4 hubs.......  I know it's not like running 2+ arms but I just wanted to try it out.  My front end widening kit (which I loved) wouldn't fit with the CCP so I can't use it anymore.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 17, 2008, 10:37:52 AM
Daryl's ice racing is usually the big TT championship, don't remember him running much ama
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 17, 2008, 10:50:07 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:36:51 AM
   I got kind of stupid yesterday and ordered 2" spacers for all 4 hubs.......  I know it's not like running 2+ arms but I just wanted to try it out.  My front end widening kit (which I loved) wouldn't fit with the CCP so I can't use it anymore.  :(

I have those because of wheel offset error. THey work great for the rear, fronts... never tried. Steering might be Jerky, but your on ice who cares?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:51:44 AM
  It'll look like a spider on the ice..  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 17, 2008, 10:55:28 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:51:44 AM
  It'll look like a spider on the ice..  :lol:

+3 arms +2 widening kit, lowered, +2 studs. Dude, that would be like +16 total.  :grin_nod:  Better flip the rims FTW!  :lol:
Forget that 50" business. ;) i' M TALKING 65" :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:57:41 AM
  The one thing I was told by a few of the guys that race ALOT is that the Rath tires feel spongy because of the pyramid shape taking away some meat on the knobby.  I'm not that good so I don't know if I'll feel it or not.....
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:58:25 AM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 17, 2008, 10:55:28 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:51:44 AM
  It'll look like a spider on the ice..  :lol:

+3 arms +2 widening kit, lowered, +2 studs. Dude, that would be like +16 total.  :grin_nod:  Better flip the rims FTW!  :lol:
Forget that 50" business. ;) i' M TALKING 65" :lol:

  Send pics!!   :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Mad Dog on December 17, 2008, 10:59:31 AM
Quote from: Peels660 on December 17, 2008, 10:55:28 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:51:44 AM
  It'll look like a spider on the ice..  :lol:

+3 arms +2 widening kit, lowered, +2 studs. Dude, that would be like +16 total.  :grin_nod:  Better flip the rims FTW!  :lol:
Forget that 50" business. ;) i' M TALKING 65" :lol:

A quad that wide might be pretty hard to pass...though I'm not sure how well it'll turn either.  Never tried it any wider than the 50" or so I have now.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 11:00:53 AM
   That would be my strategy!!   No one could pass my slow-ass!   :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 11:02:47 AM
   Feb 7th is our big ice-party up here.  If anyone want's to come over I'll set you up!!  We'll have grills going and lots of good riding.  You'd love the group, no head-cases and everyone helps each other out.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 17, 2008, 12:16:40 PM
I would totally hug the middle too. And slide as far sideways as possible.

I'd need some giant friggin' nerf bars though. :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 18, 2008, 05:36:29 AM
 My nuts didn't show yesterday so tonight will be a mad rush to get them done so I can re-mount them Friday and run Sat.  :(

Here's a few pics of the tires studded before I tuned them.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 18, 2008, 05:37:45 AM
  A few more plus the bikes we were setting up.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 18, 2008, 05:40:33 AM
   Here's a few of us plowing the tracks last Sat.  There's a full sized oval, an 1/8 mile drag strip, a .94 mile road coarse, a kiddie oval, and parking for 20-30 trucks.  :thumbs:

  Takes about 2 hours to plow everything with 2 bikes.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 18, 2008, 05:50:52 AM
  Here's what the new KK's look like
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 18, 2008, 07:35:59 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 17, 2008, 10:36:51 AM
   I got kind of stupid yesterday and ordered 2" spacers for all 4 hubs.......  I know it's not like running 2+ arms but I just wanted to try it out.  My front end widening kit (which I loved) wouldn't fit with the CCP so I can't use it anymore.  :(
You could check with Brad @ RPM Axle, he is working on a kit thats similiar to Diamond J Customs kit on ebay & will be Super Moto worthy....seems like a great way to lower the quad & widen it  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 18, 2008, 07:38:52 AM
   Sounds good but will it fit with a CCP Stabilizer?   ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 18, 2008, 07:44:31 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 18, 2008, 07:38:52 AM
   Sounds good but will it fit with a CCP Stabilizer?   ???
That would be a good question for Brad...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 19, 2008, 05:25:45 AM
  Ready for the final mounting.  Nutting took about an hour, pretty easy step.  I also included the nut # and description.  Nutting the studs not only holds them from backing out but adds rigidity to the knob/stud combo.  I couldn't nut the outside studs since there is more rubber to the outside so the studs are more burried.

  ****remember**** these nuts are for the new KK Kanadians which have a #12 shank.  The golds and KK standards have a #8 shank so would take a smaller nut.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 19, 2008, 06:30:52 AM
dang. those things are ready to rip!!!! 8)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 19, 2008, 06:33:51 AM
   YEa, I can't wait till tomorrow to try it out.  Should be a good day.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 19, 2008, 07:53:21 AM
What size are the heads on your studs again?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 19, 2008, 07:55:03 AM
  1/4" head x 1/4" tall.  Standard are 1/4" x 3/16" tall.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 19, 2008, 07:58:49 AM
gotcha. :thumbs:

How long are your studs?

And could you take a look @ these 2? What's the difference?

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/tpl/product.jsp?store=Main&catId=108&leafCatId=10807&skuId=080511&productId=p080508&mmyId=

vs.

http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/tpl/product.jsp?store=Main&catId=108&leafCatId=10807&skuId=080515&productId=p080512&mmyId=

Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 19, 2008, 08:08:00 AM
  My studs are 1" long.   Both of those look about the same.  Check Ebay for Kold Kutters, You may find a better deal.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KOLD-KUTTER-ICE-RACING-SCREWS-1-1000-PACK_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el1116QQitemZ390001679085QQptZMotorsQ5fATVQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on December 19, 2008, 06:26:36 PM
Dennis Kirk has a price match guarantee. Shipping to Krandall would only be a day from DK  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 20, 2008, 12:15:03 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 19, 2008, 05:25:45 AM
  Ready for the final mounting.  Nutting took about an hour, pretty easy step.  I also included the nut # and description.  Nutting the studs not only holds them from backing out but adds rigidity to the knob/stud combo.  I couldn't nut the outside studs since there is more rubber to the outside so the studs are more burried.

  ****remember**** these nuts are for the new KK Kanadians which have a #12 shank.  The golds and KK standards have a #8 shank so would take a smaller nut.

Dude, I can knock one out in 15-30 seconds.  :lol:

Thanks for the pics. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 20, 2008, 07:47:12 AM
Quote from: Bert on December 19, 2008, 06:26:36 PM
Dennis Kirk has a price match guarantee. Shipping to Krandall would only be a day from DK  :thumbs:

Or a 10 min drive. :lol:

;)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 22, 2008, 05:10:36 AM
Quote from: Krandall on December 20, 2008, 07:47:12 AM
Quote from: Bert on December 19, 2008, 06:26:36 PM
Dennis Kirk has a price match guarantee. Shipping to Krandall would only be a day from DK  :thumbs:

Or a 10 min drive. :lol:

;)

   I forget that not everyone lives in the U.P. which is 2-3 days from everywhere.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 22, 2008, 06:44:10 AM
  We ran Saturday and the Rappy did pretty well.  I had a tire issue with one of my rears leaking bad around the bead.  I broke it down last night and re-mounted it and it's ok now.  :thumbs:   The new tires hook up pretty well, the fronts are amazing and the rears seemed real good till the one went flat.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 05, 2009, 07:14:50 AM
   I really need to find some warm riding gloves!  Any suggestions?  I need somethig that won't be too bulky but keep my wimpy hands warm for more than 5 minutes.  :)

Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on January 05, 2009, 08:41:44 AM
Look into Snowboarding gloves.  :thumbs:

I have a pair of Rome gloves. Forget which model. But, I've used them all winter riding the rappy, and haven't froze yet. :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 05, 2009, 08:49:06 AM
  Are they pretty tight?  Like summer riding gloves?  I have a hard time fitting a bigger glove between the clutch and the hand guards when I'm reaching for it quick...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on January 05, 2009, 08:53:53 AM
They aren't thin as summer riding gloves. but they are pretty thin. They aren't super padded like your typical winter gloves. Snowboard gloves in particular are thinner because you have to be able to strap your boots in on the hill so they make them so they are thinner, flexible, and still warm. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 05, 2009, 08:55:57 AM
Cool!  I'll check them out tonight at the sport shop.  I need to drop my front tires off to get ballanced, too much wheel hop at high speed.  :wootwoot:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on January 05, 2009, 09:35:50 AM
Sully, have you tried those handwarmers that go over the bars? They allow you to ride with normal atv gloves. Ugly, but effective. :thumbs: I was skeptical, but they work great. Just slide your hands in like you would a sheep's a$$.  :rofl:

Plenty of room to operate clutch, brake, etc.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Bert on January 12, 2009, 08:59:05 AM
Hey Sully I bought my winter gloves from DennisKirk.com  I shopped in the snowmobile section & went with a Nordic glove.  Tight fingers & very warm. They were around $40. Yes I would buy them again.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:21:23 AM
  So I'm 4 weeks into ice-riding this year and I'm still having troubles hooking up in the rear.  The fronts are amazing.   I've tried tire pressures, sway bar adjustments, stiffening the rear shock, flipping the rear shock bracket to lower the back.  Still not enough weight in the rear for a good grab on corners.  :mad:

   Last night I removed my "winter" shocks and put my stock shocks back on which are 4" taller.  I maxed out the springs, then strapped them down about 2-3".  I can't use my piggyback shocks because the sway arm would hit the reservoirs.
    I also want to lower my back end even more so I removed the dog-bone and made a (temporary) replacement which will drop me another 2-3".  I'm going to cut my dog-bone in half, drill & tap threads in it and install threaded rod so I can lengthen it as needed.
   Tonight I'll put scales under all 4 wheels and see where I'm at for weight on all 4 corners so I can adjust my heights accordingly.
   Any more suggestions (short of a shorter swing arm)??????

Sully


P.S.
    Badwater ice rally is in 9 days!!!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:26:45 AM
1 more trophy for next weekend...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:31:08 AM
   You can find pics of our track and riding on Myspace "Badwater Ice Racing".   Good stuff!   :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on January 29, 2009, 10:44:38 AM
those are some awesome trophies.

I was reading in...... dirtwheels I believe. they said running extra studs on the outside edge of the tires helped in cornering as well as help clearing snow/ice from the treads. Have you thought about doing that? ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:54:46 AM
 I don't have the room,  I shaved my knobbies and the Kanadians have a big head on them.   I noticed one of the guys running a KFX was cornering pretty well and they have a short wheel base and are a wheelie machine.  That means the trick is likely more weight to the back of the bike.  I'll weigh each wheel tonight to see where I'm at and adjust from there.  I have 2-3 days of riding before the rally to get better set up.  I'm not expecting a trophy but I'd like to at least run well.

  I also narrowed my bike 4" overall,  that did help a bit.  :)
   
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:57:39 AM
Pics from last weekend
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on January 29, 2009, 10:57:50 AM
studs sticking out at a slight angle on edge of tread? When the tire starts to roll over, the stud wil dig in. IDK. maybe less studs? Sometimes a smaller footprint = more bite. Make rear studs not linear like I see people doing alot. ALign them a little staggered. you guys have a alot more experience than I do though. good luck
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:58:22 AM
a few more
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on January 29, 2009, 10:58:37 AM
Hmmmm, weight....

I forgot you shaved the knobs on them. Is it lack of tracktion or do you think your skating a little bit w/ the ammount of larger headed screws? Maybe MD will be on, he's an ice racing expert.

As for weight.. this is all I could come up with.
What about stuffing the tires w/ that hot water tube insulation stuff?

Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: PeelsSE2 on January 29, 2009, 10:57:50 AM
studs sticking out at a slight angle on edge of tread? When the tire starts to roll over, the stud wil dig in. IDK. maybe less studs? Sometimes a smaller footprint = more bite. Make rear studs not linear like I see people doing alot. ALign them a little staggered. you guys have a alot more experience than I do though. good luck

  The C/S tires are automatically staggered,  They grab when I hang my ass off the bike but I can't drive it that way.  I need to transfer more weight (or gain 100lbs)  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on January 29, 2009, 11:01:39 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: PeelsSE2 on January 29, 2009, 10:57:50 AM
studs sticking out at a slight angle on edge of tread? When the tire starts to roll over, the stud wil dig in. IDK. maybe less studs? Sometimes a smaller footprint = more bite. Make rear studs not linear like I see people doing alot. ALign them a little staggered. you guys have a alot more experience than I do though. good luck

  The C/S tires are automatically staggered,  They grab when I hang my ass off the bike but I can't drive it that way.  I need to transfer more weight (or gain 100lbs)  :lol:

try doritos and beer, that will get you the weight :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 11:04:00 AM
Quote from: Krandall on January 29, 2009, 10:58:37 AM
Hmmmm, weight....

I forgot you shaved the knobs on them. Is it lack of tracktion or do you think your skating a little bit w/ the ammount of larger headed screws? Maybe MD will be on, he's an ice racing expert.

As for weight.. this is all I could come up with.
What about stuffing the tires w/ that hot water tube insulation stuff?




   I don't think it's skating, I'm ripping up big chunks of ice but spinning too much sideways.  I was also told I need to stay on the gas more in the corners due to the angle of the studs so I'll try that too.   No one can catch me on the straights but I'm losing it in the corners,  it also may be that I'm not nuts enough. (hell I'm 44!)
???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 11:04:41 AM
Quote from: PeelsSE2 on January 29, 2009, 11:01:39 AM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 10:59:42 AM
Quote from: PeelsSE2 on January 29, 2009, 10:57:50 AM
studs sticking out at a slight angle on edge of tread? When the tire starts to roll over, the stud wil dig in. IDK. maybe less studs? Sometimes a smaller footprint = more bite. Make rear studs not linear like I see people doing alot. ALign them a little staggered. you guys have a alot more experience than I do though. good luck

  The C/S tires are automatically staggered,  They grab when I hang my ass off the bike but I can't drive it that way.  I need to transfer more weight (or gain 100lbs)  :lol:

try doritos and beer, that will get you the weight :lol:

Thanks!  I can't drink beer, Tequila only.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 29, 2009, 11:10:01 AM
Check this out!  :)

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=447143083
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 30, 2009, 05:33:57 AM
   Well I built a temporary extended dogbone last night for my rear shock and dropped the ass another 4".  I put my stock front shocks on the front and strapped them down about 70%.  I scaled each wheel and am at about 115# on each front wheel and about 100 on each rear,  when I get on the bike the fronts are about 135 and the rears are around 170.   I'm hoping that is enough weight in the rear to grab better, I also can slide back a bit to transfer more weight if needed.  I'll keep you posted and maybe get some pics, she looks kinda funky with the back squatted so much.  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 30, 2009, 05:39:41 AM
   One other thing I ran into,   I had a bad wheel hop at 50+mph and brought my front tires in for balancing.  One needed 18oz of weight in one area to balance and the other needed 12oz.  She's smooth as silk now.  :thumbs:
  I would suggest balancing your front tires even if you don't notice a bad hop,  I've never had it ride so smooth on the ice as it does now and all it took was some sticker-weights on the inside of the rim.  I put some adhesive around them to keep them in place better and it's amazing how it smoothed out the ride!!!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on October 20, 2009, 10:41:42 AM
  Well,  again we start swapping the rappy over for ice racing.   :clap:

New additions this year (because I'm a whimp) are heated grips and gauntlets to keep the hands warm.  I also baught a spare seat and cut the foam out where I sit to keep me from sliding off the back of the bike (should help keep the arms from getting so sore).  Front end lowering kit and a new (-2) swing arm to give me a little more weight on the back end in the corners.
   I de-mounted my front tires and nutted every stud (they were backing out).   Also learned last year to take the CCP off for the winter,  they don't like the extreme cold.

Now all we need is ice!!


     Yes I'm still alive Brian!    :)


Sully
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on October 20, 2009, 10:56:52 AM
Brian doens't travel round these parts no more. :(


Good to hear from ya sully!

Gettin cold here. No ice on the lakes yet. Thought we were going to get an early freeze w/ the show we had a couple weeks ago
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on October 20, 2009, 11:00:07 AM
   We had snow but now it's in the 40's.  I'm pumped to ride though!   You coming over this winter for a weekend?  First weekend of Feb is our big shindig again...  :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on October 20, 2009, 11:04:10 AM
shoot me your addy. I'd love to make it up there!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on October 20, 2009, 11:17:18 AM
Hello Sully! Good to see you....but why start with this topic? Not ready for the ice yet!  :mad:

:lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on October 20, 2009, 12:18:45 PM
  It's coming so you might as well look forward to it!   :lol:   Besides,  I don't have to clean up dog crap in the winter!   :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on October 20, 2009, 08:53:49 PM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on October 20, 2009, 12:18:45 PM
  It's coming so you might as well look forward to it!   :lol:   Besides,  I don't have to clean up dog crap in the winter!   :thumbs:

:lol: Oh yeah...and the lawn quits growing!  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 03, 2009, 08:26:41 AM
  Well, she's a mess right now but it's fun working when the weather is crappy.  Snowed last night again...
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 03, 2009, 08:28:05 AM
  a few more "before" pics
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 03, 2009, 08:41:55 AM
Are you doing the swing arm yourself?

Very cool!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on November 03, 2009, 08:43:31 AM
pretty nifty sully.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 03, 2009, 09:40:20 AM
  Thanks and yes, I'm doing the swing arm myself.  I needed it 1-1/2" shorter for better traction since it won't scale out right with the stocker.   We'll see how it works.... ???
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 03, 2009, 09:42:58 AM
  Next question is which fenders look better?
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 03, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
full fenders for safety's sake. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 09, 2009, 08:41:38 AM
  I ran cut last year but I like the full look better.  It made me nervous with my ass hangin' over the rear studded tires also... :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 09, 2009, 08:43:57 AM
   So I'm a wimp!  I installed heated grips and wind-jammers this weekend.  I also got tired of digging for the battery to put a charger on it when it's -20 so I added a set of remote charging studs.  I'm getting lazy in my old age.  ;)
   The bars on the end of the grips are to keep my hands from sliding off when I'm cornering.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 09, 2009, 08:45:03 AM
:)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 09, 2009, 09:02:04 AM
Quote from: Krandall on November 03, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
full fenders for safety's sake. :thumbs:


   Here's one of our buddie's ass after falling onto his rear tire last year......  You can actually see the dual cuts from the studs.. :rofl:  He was ok.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on November 09, 2009, 09:14:41 AM
 :jaw:


Makes me cringe!  :help:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 09, 2009, 12:42:14 PM
  He doused it with rubbing alcohol to clean it out,  Said he almost went thru the roof!    :rofl:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 09, 2009, 01:06:14 PM
Just finished welding the -2 swing arm.  Time for some clean-up and paint.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 09, 2009, 01:06:31 PM
:)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on November 10, 2009, 09:50:15 AM
that is pretty sexy sully. nice job.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 10, 2009, 11:25:36 AM
  Thanks!   I painted it last night with (my favorite) bedliner paint and should have it installed and ready to scale out tonight. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 13, 2009, 05:35:08 AM
  Well, I took her down the road last night and the swing arm works good so far.  We'll see how she works on the ice.  :)   
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on November 13, 2009, 05:37:07 AM
  This is the "winter seat" I modified to keep my cracker-ass on the bike.  :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 03, 2009, 07:25:07 AM
  Rappy's good to go for the ice. :thumbs:  Tires look funky because of the skins to protect the Kold Kutters.

Finished studding my sons bike, it'll be his first year on the ice with a dirt bike.  ;)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 04, 2009, 05:29:37 AM
   With the swing arm shortened, I needed an adjustable suspension link that had a custom length so my buddy took my spare link and modified it.  It now has a link in the middle with left and right hand threads so I can raise or lower the ass end as needed to scale out.   I also have a set of race-car scales so I can accurately measure my weight on each tire or any combo needed.   :clap:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 07, 2009, 06:04:02 AM
   Well the new rear link is on tha the front is widened.  She's pretty low and I'll scale it out this week.  I had to grind a bit on the rear suspension twin-link for clearance with the shorter swing arm but she looks good.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 07, 2009, 06:04:42 AM
Done.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2009, 06:57:16 AM
  Plowing the track this weekend!  :clap:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 09, 2009, 11:02:22 AM
thick enough for a quad on there already?!!! DANG!!!!

Our local lake just froze over this weekend.
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2009, 11:06:30 AM
  It was frozen over last weekend,  We're heading out Sunday to plow, We'll drill first to make sure we have at least 4".  It's been cold as crap here all week so we'll be good.  :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 09, 2009, 11:43:48 AM
4" of ice is all that is required?   Call me when it doubles that :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2009, 11:49:58 AM
4" good for 1 ton
6" good for 2 tons
7" good for 3 tons
8" good for 4 tons

Army core of engineers.   :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 09, 2009, 02:18:03 PM
Nice!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 09, 2009, 02:47:39 PM
Quote from: SULLY0556 on December 09, 2009, 11:49:58 AM
4" good for 1 ton
6" good for 2 tons
7" good for 3 tons
8" good for 4 tons

Army core of engineers.   :thumbs:

well just paint me yellow then. :lol:

good info to know though
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 10, 2009, 05:11:22 AM
   I still let the bigger guys go out in front of me.  If the don't fall thru, then I'm good to go.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 14, 2009, 05:53:00 AM
  Plenty of ice Sunday, 4-7" but the wind blew all the snow off the ice.  :'(  We got a little last night so maybe we can plow this week.  HArd to make a track with no snow for banks.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 14, 2009, 06:03:39 AM
  We were swapping my buddies tires on his WR450 to his winter studs Friday night,  Just putting the chain over the sproket when the bead let go and the tire blew off the rim.  Scared the crap out of us both and ruined a $375 tire.  :mad:   He must have damaged it when taking it off last spring and we didn't catch it when we were putting it on.  Lucky for us no one got hurt.   I hate dirt bikes!!   :lol:
   I've got the cleanest and warmest garage of the bunch so I now have 3 bikes and 2 quads in my garage with one more bike coming this week to set up.  :lol:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 14, 2009, 11:49:16 AM
Nice!!!

sucks about the snow.  but at least you got the ice :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 14, 2009, 11:54:44 AM
  We'll be riding this weekend,  4" of fresh stuff today.  :clap:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: al2fast on December 14, 2009, 07:26:35 PM
I cannot believe it took me so long to stumble upon this thread!  I am wanting to stud my tires and ride some ice.  Zippers are fun on the snow, but they are only good in a straight line.  The atv gear place up the road has "take off" tires that they sell for 30 bucks a tire.  Also have a set of holeshot H-D's that have a good amount of meat on them yet too.  Need an excuse to buy new tires, so the H-D's may get it.  Dunno which way to go.  Do you run an 18" tire or is 20" or taller better?

Sully, where exactly are you located?  I'm just south of Green Bay.  I'd love to get out and give it a whirl.  I'm not all hardcore and lowered and widened, but always looking for a way to get some more seat time in, especially in the winter!

Awesome info guys!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 15, 2009, 05:15:34 AM
  Welcome!!    I run 18" rears along with most of the quads,  I think Holeshots would work well with an "x" pattern in them.  Keep the studs spaced apart as far as possible on each log to prevent clogging.  Keep the studs off the pavement, cement, and dirt or they'll be junk!!!

  We're in Iron Mountain and company is always welcome!  We also head down to FonDuLac and ride on the big lake a few times a year which is a blast!  P/M me for a phone number and we'll hook up.   :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 18, 2009, 05:27:45 AM
   Well, We'll be plowing the track tomorrow  :clap:  Last weekend was a bust since all the snow blew off the lake.  6+" of ice now so we should be plenty safe. :thumbs:   I'll try to post up some pics Monday.

Sully
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 18, 2009, 06:15:46 AM
Have a great time Sully!!!! Looking forward to your guys pics!!! They are always awesome!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 21, 2009, 06:03:20 AM
  First weekend out!  :clap:    Plowed for 2 hours Saturday (left the Rappy home) but a few guys tried out the track.  Came back Sunday and rode with about 9 bikes.  We only did the outside track and will add the technical stuff on the inside when we het better ice.   It was FAST!!!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 21, 2009, 06:04:17 AM
 More weekend pics  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 21, 2009, 06:05:11 AM
  I had the camera so no action shots of me on the bike.  :(
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 21, 2009, 06:06:30 AM
  The only pic of me all weekend.   :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 21, 2009, 06:07:50 AM
   Note Mark's flowing PINK scarf, What a goof!!    We even had some slammers out for the day.   :D
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 21, 2009, 06:21:28 AM
   Now for the Rappy report.

   -2 swing-arm:  She cornered a little better but still broke traction if I got on it too hard on the sharp corners.  I had a little too much air in the rear tires but left it since it was my first weekend out.  I thought it would make a bigger difference but I can raise my front end up a bit for more back traction now, I'll also scale the bike this week to see where I'm at on each tire.  All in all that was a good mod, I'm definately faster than last year already.

   Widened and lowered front end:  Loved it!!  I felt totally solid in all situations and steering was just fine.

   Cut seat:  Love it!  My ass stayed right where I wanted it at all times, My arms didn't get tired at all from pulling myself back up on the bike.  :)   Everyone was checking that mod out!  :thumbs:

   Heated grips and gauntlets:  This was BY FAR the best improvement!!  I ran with no gloves at all and my hands were toasty.  You can get a much better feel for the bike without big winter gloves and you can ride forever if your hands never get cold.  My only issue was my new snowmobile helmets visor kept fogging up but I'll work that out this week.  Gauntlets pulled a little in the corners making it hard to find the throttle when I had riding gloves on, I wish the arm-holes were a bit bigger but I'll get used to it.


  All in all it was a good first ride and I'll have a few things to tweak before next Sunday.




Sully
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Peelz on December 21, 2009, 08:41:59 AM
nicE!!!  heated grips and gauntlets!
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: Krandall on December 21, 2009, 08:52:23 AM
Thats awesome Sully! Sounds like an EXCELLENT time out there!!!! Had a great weekend for riding too. Wish I could have played! :)
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 21, 2009, 08:55:07 AM
  The invitation is open for anyone!  P/M me and I'll set you up.


              First weekend of Feb is our annual Badwater race day.  :boat: 
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on December 28, 2009, 05:19:50 AM
   :mad:  No riding this weekend,  5" of water on the track and lots of open water where the springs pushed thru the ice.   Too much warm weather and snow in the last week.  It's a mess right now but the track should be nice when the water on top freezes again.....
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 06, 2010, 06:45:59 AM
   I'm moving my posts on this subject to:

http://www.raptorsource.com/forum/index.php?topic=5876.new;topicseen
Title: Re: Rear Axle / Front End Question for Ice racing
Post by: norby449 on February 27, 2010, 10:08:21 AM
I have seen guys try to off set tires, It does not work. You do not want to go with a plus anything forward a-arm and you really don't want to extend the swinger! On the flat track we run +2 wider +0 forward a-arms we run stock length or -1 to 1.5 swingers, 5.5 x10 fronts and 59 x10 x10 or x9 in the rear We run sway bars and if you change the off set or stretch one side forward it will not work right. 50 inches is max for width, and lower is good but do not go to the point that the a-arms are level with the ground the does not work either. Sometimes guys will run different tire compounds, harder on the right and softer on the left. You will always offset tire pressure, and change it as the track condition changes. Suspension it critical, compression rebound and preload. Most of this will not matter for someone just starting, but as you learn to ride and turn left it makes all the difference. Remember that one second slower in a ten lap race on a ten second oval puts you a full lap down. Have fun the adjustments never end and the track or tracks change all night long.