4x4 Raptor

[Warren]

You can sink thousands into suspension on a utility quad, the handling gets better but it's nowhere near that of even a big bore sport quad.

yeah i know. i just think the suspension on the wolverine isn't that great and could be alot better thats all. basically that list i made is what i want on my wolverine. 

[ctateusa]

Yhea I would love to see the wolvy as a bigger bore sport ute.  I agree it does need to be a little lighter, but if you go to light then you end up like can-am with broken frames from small incidents.

I tossed in a BBK, cam and high compression piston and now it has enough power to move me around at a good clip. It can ride wheelies a lot easier and everything.   

But then I got my rappy and I would love to see them bump the power on the wolvy up to a 700 FI.  It would be wicked.

[Peelz]

Hey MD, I just meant it needed improved....but needs to stay cheap. Redesign will make it too expensive. THe price is one of the wolverines' strong points. But....they must improve it quite a bit. That 550 motor is stronger than I thought....and Fuel injected! It would be a marked improvement for little extra...especially since it would be close to 100 lbs less than the Grizz chassis and making more power. Regear it , stronger clutch springs. Slightly Hotter cam for a bit more top end. Not my favorite solution, but it would sway some can-am buyers. Again, price being important.

Just a thought.

[Colorado700R]

The first gen. wolvy was a cool machine, just needed more gittyup.  That basic machine with a 450 fuel injected motor and updated suspension would be a killer ride.

Exactly, the first gen was like a warrior with 4wd.  Add a better motor and a little better suspension and you're set.

Make the wolvey with a stronger motor, but keep it light...and cheaper than a renegade, it will rule the roost. IRS would be OK as well

Thinking they could use the FI motor from the 550 grizz!

Then you've got a slightly more powerful heavy utility quad without racks.  The current wolverine is heavy with the wrong type of chassis, wrong type of motor, and wrong type of transmission.  Adding another utility motor with 120 more cc would make it better but it's not going to be anything close to what constitutes a "sport" 4x4.

There is demand for a true sport 4x4.  The best we have now are the anemic wolverine and expensive renegades, both of which are essentially utility quads without racks.  Both have utility powerplants and drivetrains and the weight and handling show it.

While I'm not sure the 700R is really the best platform for such a machine and I know that the price would make KTM's look cheap there is certainly a lot to be said for such a machine.  The polaris outlaw isn't impressive to me with IRS, but as a 4x4 with a good powerplant that would have me thinking.

I really like the Polaris with IRS. As a matter of fact I like it so much I found this for my next raptor....
http://www.sonicoffroad.com/Atv%20IRS.html

Then buy a Polaris, it's cheaper than a new quad and that kit.

a 4X4 rappy would be stupid if you ask me. i agreed it would ruin the quad for sure.


i also agree that yamaha should just update the wolverine. slap in a 700R engine, piggy back shocks, a wider stance and a locking front diff. and i think that would be a mean son of a bitch right there.

You can sink thousands into suspension on a utility quad, the handling gets better but it's nowhere near that of even a big bore sport quad.

Your never going to get the feel of a sport quad out of 4x4, nor get the utility of 4x4 quad in a true sport.  I've ridden the Rene plenty of times, it's a fun machine.  The "4x4 sport" is a completely diffrent animal, and should not be compared to either the sport or utility markets IMO.

I agree the wolvy could use a new chasis, but its also the lightest of the "4x4 sports" now, and I'd like it to stay that way.  If yamaha were to do a redesign with an additional 1 1/2-2" suspension travel increase, and add 5-8hp to the 450 wolvy, I think it'd be a winner.

I don't get the problem with the transmission.  Has there been an issue, or just a global hatred for automatics?

Aaron

[Peelz]

Great post Colorado! Keep it light. That is why I wouldn't buy the Renegade. The wolvy bridges that gap betyween sport and utility better by staying light. Now, they need to work on power a bit, with a chassis tweak here or there.

+1 on the Auto thing. I don't think I would want a manual clutch on my 4x4. What is the point? You would lose more speed than you would gain with that much drag on the powertrain with the 4x4 system. Have you ever ridden an older Honda or Suzuki 4x4 with the auto clutch? Shift fast, you slow down in a hurry. CVT auto is the way to go....especially in adverse conditions where you would not take the rappy. Or... most of wouldn't anyway. :grin_nod: You are busy dealing with the extra weight of the utility chassis (wolvy is 516 lbs, much less than any others) I don't want to deal with a clutch too.

[Flynbyu]

4x4 Raptor?

They have one, it's called the Grizzly.



~Brian

[Buck]

There is demand for a true sport 4x4.  The best we have now are the anemic wolverine and expensive renegades, both of which are essentially utility quads without racks.  Both have utility powerplants and drivetrains and the weight and handling show it.

While I'm not sure the 700R is really the best platform for such a machine and I know that the price would make KTM's look cheap there is certainly a lot to be said for such a machine.  The polaris outlaw isn't impressive to me with IRS, but as a 4x4 with a good powerplant that would have me thinking.

I really like the Polaris with IRS. As a matter of fact I like it so much I found this for my next raptor....
http://www.sonicoffroad.com/Atv%20IRS.html

then your Raptor can weigh the same as the new Honda 700XX.    $4k? 

[disco]

A manual clutch probably wouldn't survive long on a 4x4.  Most people would be burning up clutches and starters on it all day long.  I've had my Raptor in mud thick enough to drag the down the engine in first till it stalls.  I like clutches and all but not in a 4x4.  Plus all the slow climbing over logs and through ruts and stuff, I'll take an auto.   Took my BB400 out Saturday and beat it up for several hours.  The auto clutch is nice in the messy stuff.  Never driven a CVT though.

A 4x4 sport would be a blast. 

[socalrappy700]

Great post Aaron and Peels, but now you're going to get MD all worked up.  He's going to be burning through the thesaurus all night to see how many big words he can drop in a 2 page response explaining the same idea 10 different ways.



Just kidding bro, I still have love for the Dog.

[Krandall]

There is demand for a true sport 4x4.  The best we have now are the anemic wolverine and expensive renegades, both of which are essentially utility quads without racks.  Both have utility powerplants and drivetrains and the weight and handling show it.

While I'm not sure the 700R is really the best platform for such a machine and I know that the price would make KTM's look cheap there is certainly a lot to be said for such a machine.  The polaris outlaw isn't impressive to me with IRS, but as a 4x4 with a good powerplant that would have me thinking.

I really like the Polaris with IRS. As a matter of fact I like it so much I found this for my next raptor....
http://www.sonicoffroad.com/Atv%20IRS.html

Price $4400.00

I think I'll buy a used raptor.

[Mad Dog]

I would prefer an auto-clutch manual to a fully automatic belt driven suspension, especially if I'm stuck with a utility motor and even more so if it's undersized.

If Honda had added 4wd to the 700XX they'd have had a much larger share of the market open to them.  Same thing with the outlaw.

disco I'm talking about a more sure footed sport quad, not a mud bog champ.  Something that can manage sloppy XC tracks with ease, not a rock crawler.  It wouldn't be great for mx either.  A more capable trail machine, not a quad to be used everywhere for everything.

[Colorado700R]

I would prefer an auto-clutch manual to a fully automatic belt driven suspension, especially if I'm stuck with a utility motor and even more so if it's undersized.

If Honda had added 4wd to the 700XX they'd have had a much larger share of the market open to them.  Same thing with the outlaw.

disco I'm talking about a more sure footed sport quad, not a mud bog champ.  Something that can manage sloppy XC tracks with ease, not a rock crawler.  It wouldn't be great for mx either.  A more capable trail machine, not a quad to be used everywhere for everything.

Time to release your inner redneck MD......

1 660 powertrain plus 1 Prarie chasis = Hakuna matta bitches 

[FoundArealQuad]

I think Yamaha had a much better package with the 1 gen Wolverines. All the had to do is improve the power plant and widen it with better suspension and it could have been a winner. I don't dislike the new Wolverine, but you can't make a utility machine a sport quad just with plastic. The new Wolverine has a niche also it is a good trail machine for someone who does not like a clutch and does not like the looks of a Utility Quad. By the way I have one for sale

[Peelz]

I would prefer an auto-clutch manual to a fully automatic belt driven suspension, especially if I'm stuck with a utility motor and even more so if it's undersized.

If Honda had added 4wd to the 700XX they'd have had a much larger share of the market open to them.  Same thing with the outlaw.

disco I'm talking about a more sure footed sport quad, not a mud bog champ.  Something that can manage sloppy XC tracks with ease, not a rock crawler.  It wouldn't be great for mx either.  A more capable trail machine, not a quad to be used everywhere for everything.

Time to release your inner redneck MD......

1 660 powertrain plus 1 Prarie chasis = Hakuna matta bitches 

LOL the Hakuna Matata version! Exhaust held in place with Rocks!

[Gunz]

There is demand for a true sport 4x4.  The best we have now are the anemic wolverine and expensive renegades, both of which are essentially utility quads without racks.  Both have utility powerplants and drivetrains and the weight and handling show it.

While I'm not sure the 700R is really the best platform for such a machine and I know that the price would make KTM's look cheap there is certainly a lot to be said for such a machine.  The polaris outlaw isn't impressive to me with IRS, but as a 4x4 with a good powerplant that would have me thinking.

I really like the Polaris with IRS. As a matter of fact I like it so much I found this for my next raptor....
http://www.sonicoffroad.com/Atv%20IRS.html

then your Raptor can weigh the same as the new Honda 700XX.    $4k? 

I just like the concept of IRS. Feels good and absorbs ruts well, however body roll does suck. Yeah $4k is way to high, There is a kit out there for around 1300.00.