4gunz
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79/4gunz4x4z/795barkerdyno.jpg)
795cc
WK 54TB
Barker stage 2 head
+2 ferrea's
Beehive springs
Barker cam
12:5.1 JE piston
106 Cylinder
Balanced 6 mil Barker crank
Gigot Slingshot Lockout clutch
PC3
Dynatek nonprogrammable
Remember its just a trailbike, not some bullshit duner.
If you have a dyno graph from the rally post up and your complete motor build.
12hp 5 Tq I rock a Briggs and stratton 8)
Here are my runs from LS dyno day! Just want to give a public THANK YOU to DYNO MIKE for the great tune on my quad. He will have my recommendation from anyone who asks me. Thanks again Mike and Troy for getting us this hookup!!!
(http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll344/tonto13/img041.jpg)
(http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/ll344/tonto13/img040.jpg)
727cc
+3 KDS Racing T/B
FCI intake w/box
Dyna prog. ignition
PCIII
Stock Valve Bo White trail P/P
Web4 cam
Beehive springs
12:1 CP stock bore
+5 HotRods crank
Sparks pipe
Slingshot clutch
30hp. shot NX wet nitrous system
Troywcc vs 4gunz overlay.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79/4gunz4x4z/barkvstroy.jpg)
This my bike graphed over Troy's RE stage 3 build.
.
Sure wish I could find mine from a couple of months ago ???
Troywcc dyno numbers.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79/4gunz4x4z/scan0007.jpg)
Troy I need you build specs.
771cc
Racers Edge stage 3 head
WK 58TB
105.5 cylinder
5 mil hotrod
Slingshot
NaturalRaptor dyno results on his RE stage 1 head. Matt got a 26hp improvement on his tune. Autotune sucks and we have proof on multiple bikes. Hefe's 450 autotune worked fine.
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79/4gunz4x4z/Mobile%20Uploads/1256532968.jpg)
(http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/pp79/4gunz4x4z/Mobile%20Uploads/1256532972.jpg)
We got the wrong graph, but Matt was getting a 69hp and a 58tq after the 20thish pull.
727cc
Racerz Edge Stage 1 head, with Ferra Plus 1 valves and springs
CP 10.75:1, 105mm piston
Stock Stroke
X4 cam
KDS +3 TB
PC5
FCI
Dynatek Programmable on #2
Pump Gas
.
Theres more power to be had on tontos bike on the spray down low, you can see the drop in torque were the A/F jumps to 16:1. If ya can richen that part up theres another 2-3ftlbs there if not more.
where is hefes dyno sheet so you can make fun of his TQ figures.
we made fun of his figure all right...looks like Elmer Fudd goes gay porn :lol:
Quote from: Colorado700R on October 26, 2009, 09:05:49 PM
we made fun of his figure all right...looks like Elmer Fudd goes gay porn :lol:
:run: :run: :run:
Bo, Roy got another 7hp gain on the tune. His a/f without NOS was originally 15:1, they worked on his a/f for awhile.
tonto, you forgot to list your exhaust ;) i like your choice of components though :nod:
sparks Big Core I believe???
Quote from: kamakazi on October 26, 2009, 10:37:34 PM
tonto, you forgot to list your exhaust ;) i like your choice of components though :nod:
Sparks.
Tonto is also runnin my old stock valve port. I think his build is doin pretty good considering the combination.
I would have to say he's doing better then pretty good, considering he is only a 727, 70hp on a basic build is f'n awesome. Thats up against an Racers Edge stage 1 put'n down 69hp, and a KDS head put'n down 71hp.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d162/bit646/DynoResultflip.jpg)
Alkire193's Dyno
Hot Rods +5mm Crank
105mm CP 13:1 piston
Dynatek Programmable Ignition
RJ Cam
+2 Ferrera Valves, Kibble Springs
CNC intake and exhaust
BARKER DUALS
FCI INTAKE
Power Commander 3
+3mm KDS Throttle Body
My build specs: Gunnie you can copy them and paste them under my graph.
Dyno Mike did a super job and I will have an autotune kit for sale shortly!
Also, Dyno Mike printed the wrong torque graph, My build was 69 hp and 58 torque but he printed the 52 torque.
Racerz Edge Stage 1 head, with Ferra +1 valves and springs
CP 10.75:1, 105mm piston
Stock Stroke
X4 cam
KDS +3 TB
PC5
FCI
Dynatek Programmable on #2
Pump Gas :thumbs:
here is mine
Bone stock
We need Frog69 and Jessie K's dyno's.... anybody else, I can't remember.
Are we going to do race results on these dyno charts too? Not to brag anyone's build up over another but it is interesting how big of a power spread you can have and still have competitive racing.
Quote from: troywcc on October 27, 2009, 11:38:32 AM
Are we going to do race results on these dyno charts too? Not to brag anyone's build up over another but it is interesting how big of a power spread you can have and still have competitive racing.
Sure you can, but that puts me out cause I didnt get to race. That leaves you and Roy. Next year I'll do what I can to have a legal track setup for us. Still need your specs Troy.
MEOW!!!!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Come on Gunny, you are at least a top ten bike out of the eleven we raced :rofl:
i found mine but its in pink ink lol i made 46.96 hp and 43.36 tq
Quote from: troywcc on October 27, 2009, 01:35:28 PM
Come on Gunny, you are at least a top ten bike out of the eleven we raced :rofl:
nyuk nyuk nyuk :lol:
Those are some good numbers. I hope i'm up there after my build. I'm waiting on the cam shootout to decide on what i am going with. Dyno Mike is awesome. He knows his stuff and is super cool. Do they still have the dyno in the trailer? Last time i did mine the wind was blowing 65 mph and so much sand blowing we had to leave the doors shut up and he said that it would probably affect the dyno numbers but he could get close.
Quote from: Jessie on October 27, 2009, 01:41:20 PM
i found mine but its in pink ink lol i made 46.96 hp and 43.36 tq
That'll work, post your engine mods.
So right now we have a few big builds representing Racers Edge, Barker, KDS, and BO/NOS setup.
83hp 58tq RE3 bike troy
81.5hp 58tq Bark2 bike gunz
72.5hp 60tq KDS2 bike Alkire
70hp 58tq Bo bike w/NOS 108hp 73tq Tonto
69hp 58tq RE1 bike NaturalRaptor
I can promise the bark2, RE3, and NOS bike will continue to get tweaked on. I personally am hoping to get close to 90hp without changing bore, stroke, and compression. Once I get all I can out of it I really would like to throw a Barker3 or RE3 on her.
14hp 7 TQ Briggs and stratton KDS bike
I thought Tontos bike put down 56ftlbs on motor?
is hefe bike actually stock and is the graph from the same dyno?
it's not stock...is got allot of barker goodies inside and out
All the bikes were on the same dyno same day, one after the other. Tonto's bike did make 58 pounds of torque on motor also.
Quote from: troywcc on October 27, 2009, 08:18:10 PM
All the bikes were on the same dyno same day, one after the other. Tonto's bike did make 58 pounds of torque on motor also.
Yeah to confusing to keep track. Roy just sent me a message to change his to 56tq.
The first numbers on the dyno for mine were 72hp. and 58tq. But the downlow and mid were terrible. I got lucky with the tune. I do not remember the exact amount I gained downlow and in the mid range, but my quad runs so much better now. I truly cannot say thanks enough to Dyno Mike for the tune.
Heres my HOSS 53hp and 48tq not bad for stock plus 3 :thumbs:
a68h52tpt
a71h60tpm
Quote from: 4gunz4x4z on October 27, 2009, 05:43:58 PM
So right now we have a
83hp 58tq RE3 bike troy
81.5hp 58tq Bark2 bike gunz
72.5hp 60tq KDS2 bike Alkire
70hp 58tq Bo bike w/NOS 108hp 73tq Tonto
I can promise all but the KDS bike will continue to get tweaked on. I personally am hoping to get close to 90hp without changing bore, stroke, and compression. Once I get all I can out of it I really would like to throw a Barker3 or RE3 on her.
Put the 58tb on it and you should be much closer to what you are looking for.
Quote from: tbarker on October 28, 2009, 07:51:43 AM
Quote from: 4gunz4x4z on October 27, 2009, 05:43:58 PM
So right now we have a
83hp 58tq RE3 bike troy
81.5hp 58tq Bark2 bike gunz
72.5hp 60tq KDS2 bike Alkire
70hp 58tq Bo bike w/NOS 108hp 73tq Tonto
I can promise all but the KDS bike will continue to get tweaked on. I personally am hoping to get close to 90hp without changing bore, stroke, and compression. Once I get all I can out of it I really would like to throw a Barker3 or RE3 on her.
Put the 58tb on it and you should be much closer to what you are looking for.
I talked to troy last nite and I think I'm going to head up there for the cam test. While I'm there we plan on swapping his RE3 head with your cam over onto my bike, to see if there is a gain or not. Most likely I'll do a 58 vs 54tb on my build too. If you want to send me your stage 3 loaded up, we'll do a RE3 vs Barker3 head shoot out on my build, your cam in both heads.Your call. I'll send it back after the test.
Quote from: 4gunz4x4z on October 27, 2009, 05:43:58 PM
So right now we have a few big builds representing Racers Edge, Barker, KDS, and BO/NOS setup.
83hp 58tq RE3 bike troy
81.5hp 58tq Bark2 bike gunz
72.5hp 60tq KDS2 bike Alkire
70hp 58tq Bo bike w/NOS 108hp 73tq Tonto
69hp 58tq RE1 bike NaturalRaptor
I can promise the bark2, RE3, and NOS bike will continue to get tweaked on. I personally am hoping to get close to 90hp without changing bore, stroke, and compression. Once I get all I can out of it I really would like to throw a Barker3 or RE3 on her.
Dam that is a lot of numbers to keep up with, but quote change because I had 58 tq.
Natural is the only one on that list running pump gas right?
Technically yes, but Roy's is built for pump gas too, minus the NOS. Funyun send me a pm of what you are trying to do and accomplish and I'll fix you up. :thumbs:
mine will run on pump gas....
For maybe a minute :lol:
Just so everybody knows my bike is free for anybody to ride at the rallys. Funyun you can take her for a spin at St Anthony's rally, just don't pull a Dorito on me. :rofl:
Thank you for posting me up Gunz, I have a :mad: of a time getting on here. Im looking at lock up, KDS 3 with much bigger TB and a whole new suspension. Trying to look at a larger cam, but the TQ from the RJ is nice. I think my bike is still drinking through a straw though. I dont think ill ever go beyond 770....but knowing me, I will one of these days.
Got a lot of overall bike fixes to do though. Ill be in the garage if anyone needs me :)
All you guys make me sick with all the HP and TQ numbers. I new it wouldn't be a good thing for me to come and listen to all you guys talk about big CC's and the HP and TQ numbers. Well to let you guys know I order some go fast goodies yesterday just the start. Oh and that hole I got in my exhaust from the heat, I keep telling the wife its not fixable and that I have to order some Barker duals :nod: but she's not buying that one yet. So next year when I come I will not be stock and should be above the 60+ HP number and I will leave it at that!!!!!!
Quote from: MORAPTOR700 on October 28, 2009, 06:38:06 PM
All you guys make me sick with all the HP and TQ numbers. I new it wouldn't be a good thing for me to come and listen to all you guys talk about big CC's and the HP and TQ numbers. Well to let you guys know I order some go fast goodies yesterday just the start. Oh and that hole I got in my exhaust from the heat, I keep telling the wife its not fixable and that I have to order some Barker duals :nod: but she's not buying that one yet. So next year when I come I will not be stock and should be above the 60+ HP number and I will leave it at that!!!!!!
:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :thumbs:
Hey guys, you smell that?
sniff sniff
I smell....a challenge :lol:
Cant wait Mo. Its gonna be fun! Dont forget, with great power comes great repair costs!
Quote from: Alkire193 on October 28, 2009, 08:09:39 PM
Hey guys, you smell that?
sniff sniff
I smell....a challenge :lol:
Cant wait Mo. Its gonna be fun! Dont forget, with great power comes great repair costs!
I'm hoping Alkire that the mods I'm doing are going to keep my machine realiable. Not going wild like all you guys have. (strokers and big bores)
My machine isnt unreliable. It just needs some TLC for the time being. The thing is when you gain more power if you dont upgrade everything (clutch, sprockets, chain, wheels, bearings, etc) the part you half- :mad: will bite you in the :mad: . My sprocket shattered under my 52 hp set up. My clutch is now failing under my 72hp set up. When it finally runs right who knows what will fail next. So I have to update and upgrade every little thing this winter. Its costly, time consuming, and requires a swear phrase book because the old ones get boring after awhile. But once you have everything set, there is still no garuntee, but it will run good for awhile. Just like a stock 686cc. It will run right for awhile, then something will break. It's going to happen. Thats why all us high bore high stroke guys just kinda stare for a sec and smile when our bikes break. Cant get pissed, sooner or later it was bound to happen. Then we fix, then we get back on and ride the hell out of em!
Gotta pay to play, no matter what you modify or how much work you do to it.
Quote from: EHSRACING on October 27, 2009, 08:13:00 PM
is hefe bike actually stock and is the graph from the same dyno?
sorry.. no, not even clost to stock!
it is a 09 450R
Barker cnc head
+ 1 Valves
+2.5 TB
Barker RHC Cams
Barker Exhaust
pro design Intake
PC5
Autotune
We are still working on finding more HP out of this beast
Tim Barker, Ron Hamp and Myself have some Ideas to get her
up a little higher
Quote from: Hefe on October 30, 2009, 08:56:16 AM
Quote from: EHSRACING on October 27, 2009, 08:13:00 PM
is hefe bike actually stock and is the graph from the same dyno?
sorry.. no, not even clost to stock!
it is a 09 450R
Barker cnc head
+ 1 Valves
+2.5 TB
Barker RHC Cams
Barker Exhaust
pro design Intake
PC5
Autotune
We are still working on finding more HP out of this beast
Tim Barker, Ron Hamp and Myself have some Ideas to get her
up a little higher
We could hook up a strap and I can pull you. That should be plenty of power old man river.
wasnt it your quad gunny bunny i saw being pulled? please correct me if i am wrong :rolleyes:
PC3 ground wire snapped, no biggie
Quote from: Colorado700R on October 30, 2009, 10:26:25 AM
PC3 ground wire snapped, no biggie
So much power on launch pc3 pulled 2g's inflicting a horrible strain on the grounding wire causing it to give way... I still made it to the finish even though I coasted for a half mile. Uber fast
Quote from: 4gunz4x4z on October 30, 2009, 11:44:05 AM
Quote from: Colorado700R on October 30, 2009, 10:26:25 AM
PC3 ground wire snapped, no biggie
So much power on launch pc3 pulled 2g's inflicting a horrible strain on the grounding wire causing it to give way... I still made it to the finish even though I coasted for a half mile. Uber fast
true story, I saw it all with my own eyes, I can't believe he was able to even hold onto the bike.
cant believe he didnt secure the wire for the jiggawatt tranducer, "where we are going we dont need roads"
I thought it broke out of fear, but apparently I was wrong
Put the 58tb on it and you should be much closer to what you are looking for.
[/quote]
I talked to troy last nite and I think I'm going to head up there for the cam test. While I'm there we plan on swapping his RE3 head with your cam over onto my bike, to see if there is a gain or not. Most likely I'll do a 58 vs 54tb on my build too. If you want to send me your stage 3 loaded up, we'll do a RE3 vs Barker3 head shoot out on my build, your cam in both heads.Your call. I'll send it back after the test.
[/quote]
When is the shoot out going to happen the only stage3 head i have right now is on the engine that rocket factory used to run 4.17s last weekend. All motor.
SuperFlow Dyno @ Advantage tuning, Colorado Springs, Colorado ~55 degrees
STP #'s
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii265/Cololrado700R/dyno004.jpg)
Dynojet Corrected
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii265/Cololrado700R/dyno001.jpg)
6000ft Above sea level
KDS +2 head, +5 stroker, RJ cam, +3 TB, 12.5 CP piston, FCI, DYnatek Programmable on curve 2, PC3, FCI, Barker Duals, KDS Koineter Valve.
Nice numbers. :thumbs: This is one of our site sponsors too , right?
Torque peaks at 5600rpm?
Horse peak at 6700rpm?
Yep, Corey at advantage tuning hooked it up! Thanks brotha!
Quote
When is the shoot out going to happen the only stage3 head i have right now is on the engine that rocket factory used to run 4.17s last weekend. All motor.
Yeah I talked to Jason at TRF the other day. Nice numbers.
Tim I was going to go up there around the 15th of November, but if you really want to do this and you need some time to build one, we can do it in lets say Dec/Jan"? That would be perfect timing before race season while bikes are torn down for builds. I know we are trying to get a few more big heads from a couple of builders right now and plan on throwing them into the mix as well. Just depends on if these builders have any ballz or not. Bottom line I would love to throw your stage 3 up against a RE 3. Let me talk to John, Troy, and Roy. Roy (Tonto13) and I have everything we need down here in Oklahoma for a head shoot out. We'll use the same dyno as above.
I am down for the shootout, But if you are coming out this way, Then lets just leave them on the bikes and race. :clap:
Quote from: Racers Edge Az. on October 31, 2009, 07:22:24 PM
I am down for the shootout, But if you are coming out this way, Then lets just leave them on the bikes and race. :clap:
I liiike the way you think. :thumbs:
Big head shootout, meaning 54+mm inlet size too?
^ Sure, was going to use a 54tb and if I can get my hands on a 58 that too.
Hell, why not. I know ya aint got one of mine, I can send ya one.
Tim, John, Bo..
Is there a difference in your motor builds between Drag/dune machines vs trail machines?
The reason I ask is that allot of us here are 3/4 time trails, 1/4 sand (if we're lucky). Is there a different TQ/HP curve more optimized for our application, or is it truly one size fits all when it comes to power?
make it a little later we are supposed to run the quad at AVI that weekend then it is coming back apart to have some upgrades in the engine and you can test that head. It needs at least a 58mm tb prefer the 60.2 on it but the 58 will work for comparisons. Hell i might have to go visit my mother and come out there.
Quote from: Colorado700R on November 01, 2009, 09:09:23 AM
Tim, John, Bo..
Is there a difference in your motor builds between Drag/dune machines vs trail machines?
The reason I ask is that allot of us here are 3/4 time trails, 1/4 sand (if we're lucky). Is there a different TQ/HP curve more optimized for our application, or is it truly one size fits all when it comes to power?
I personally think power is power and you try to optimize it everywhere not just 1 area. For most people our stage 2 head is capable of making more than enough hp. Yes you can use our stage 3 head for trail riding but there is more maintenance on it compared to the smaller heads because of the Ti valves. There is not any difference between our dune/trail or drag head just a difference in setup.
I can understand that, but I would think that "power is power" is more true in a tightly spaced geared machine like a 450. One of the nice things I've always liked about the rappy is the lugging capability, and with some builds I've ridden on trails, it seemed it became more temperamental with shifting/stalling. It seems that when a machine gets built at the level you gentlemen do, the HP/TQ gets pushed into the upper RPMS, and sacrifices a bit in the lower R's.
Maybe, it's just a "feel" thing, with all the power generated on top with these builds, that it spoils you. So when your not in the "sweet" spot of the RPM range it doesn't feel torqy ???
Actually the 450s are just as finicky as the 700s when it comes to power and the curve thats "optimal" for each application. Im like Tim on what he said, use of a "smaller" cylinder head port and milder cam is what I recommend my trail guys. Most trail customers use the 5050/RJ style grinds and most of my drag/duner guys run the Web4/custom drag grind cams. But when it comes to making the engine larger I always recommend a crank swap over the bigbore for both styles of application if the money/installation is available.
I personally think power is power and you try to optimize it everywhere not just 1 area. For most people our stage 2 head is capable of making more than enough hp. Yes you can use our stage 3 head for trail riding but there is more maintenance on it compared to the smaller heads because of the Ti valves. There is not any difference between our dune/trail or drag head just a difference in setup.
[/quote]
Why is there more maintenance with ti valves? Or is it do to the size of the valves?
Ti valves will not last as long as stainless valves. There are some new coatings for the ti valves that help but are still not perfect.
Tim can tell ya probably as good as anyone. Ti isnt a long term metal, light yes but alot more to runnin it compared to steel. Your actually not even supposed to reuse Ti valves. Once theyve been cycled thats it really although many have and will reuse them.
This is good info. Doesn't the yfz 450's have ti valves? Why use some ti valves and some stainless on the +3 is it b/c of the weight of the stainless?
And on to the dyno pulls. I have never had my 700 based dynoed by dyno mike but he did dyno my 660 based raptor which was a 720 with 11 to 1 compression and stage 2 hotcam and +1 valves, LTE duals and edelbrock carb . the run conditions were 99.89 degrees farenhieght, humidity 7%, std 1.07--made 52.5hp and 44.93 tq. The air fuel curve is not to be desired though.
He also dynoed my wifes 2005 yfz 450, stock bike with yoshi pipe, quadworks filter and cam mod. The run conditions we 100.25 degrees farenheight, 11% humidity std 1.08--the bike made 45.01 hp and 30.25 tq.
Later today I will try to post up those sheets. He also dynoed my buddies ds650 but his bike slowed down in the actual race after the dyno and adjustments.
I will put my 2 cents in Barkers Stg 2 head puts down awsome power it will hold more hp than most people will be able to put to the ground we went a 4.202 this weekend running a std stg 2 head that any customer can get and I feel pretty confident that we will be able to take it to a low teen shortly. This is on a OEM frame 700 (12milx105.5=839) on all motor running gas not alcohol.
I would love to see a head shoot out
Quote from: Racers Edge Az. on October 31, 2009, 07:22:24 PM
I am down for the shootout, But if you are coming out this way, Then lets just leave them on the bikes and race. :clap:
John, I'll call you soon. Looks like it's going to be RE3, Bark3, Bark2, BO's Mega, and I was going to see if Kenz is interested too. Kenny might throw one in as well.
Have you talked to Kenny about this yet? I was going to call him later anywho.
yes, a few of us already have (Troy, Mike, and Myself)
Quote from: Colorado700R on November 02, 2009, 01:26:07 PM
yes, a few of us already have (Troy, Mike, and Myself)
...and Roy. :thumbs:
:thumbs: :thumbs:
Updates?
Quote from: VelociRaptor on November 15, 2009, 07:51:37 PM
Updates?
Waiting on you, Kenny, and Jason/Tim to get me the heads. Roy (tonto13) and I will do the comparison dyno pulls around the first part of December. I'll call Tim and Kenny tomorrow and see whats up with theirs. :thumbs: