Ok, with winter approaching my wheels start spinning :lol: Is the 8mm stroker crank drop in or do the cases need bored? How hard is it to split the cases and do this myself. Iam mechanically inclined. already had this motor apart to install new piston etc.and worked on cars also since i was 13yrs old. Im thinking of +8mm crank and 105mm bore.already have the other essentials. X-4 cam,+2tb,barkers,etc. how reliable is this combo for the occasional drag races and trail riding? what kinda hp could i expect from this? Thanks in advance and sorry for so many questions at once
so much for not likeing down time :confused:
My +8mm crank, 105mm bore has run flawless at 14:1 compression.
If I remember right I think you can go to a +15 with out trenching the cases.
I thought i read on the old forum a long time ago that +8mm was the biggest without boring ??? Just not real sure.The downtime dont really matter i guess when the snow starts flying,cause if i really want to ride i still have the arctic cat 400 4x4 and i have a key for the neighbors shed. and his raptor 350 :jaw: oh snap :lol:
would it be worth it just to bore it to 105.5mm and more compression and be done with it. this would be alot quicker and cheaper route because i wont have the money for a +6 swinger then :rofl:
Your JE piston wont work with the big stroker cranks. You'll have to buy a new one. While your at it you might as well go big on compression too.
Your piston will work if the rod is shortened by 4mm with a plus 8 crank. I agree with Preddy, get more compression while you're at it :thumbs:
Ohi definatly will get more compression. But what do you think about just boring to 105.5mm with 14:1?
I myself wouldn't reccomend going over 105mm with the OEM cylinder. If you have your heart set on 105.5 I'd highly reccomend the CP aftermarket cylinder.
I have no problem settling for a 105mm :rofl: do you think this would be as good as boring and stroking? or should i go all out and do both? I already think i need a lock up clutch cause my stocker dont like the 1/4mile drag :lol: so either way the clutch is a must. maybe when i get a good clutch in there i will notice a big differance in performance. cause in my video's at the drag strip you can actually here it slip after shifting. This has to be hurting to a certain degree
Well, I like the strokers myself....I guarantee you won't be disapointed if you go with an 8mil stroke and a 105mm bore. It has proven to be a damn good combination IMHO :thumbs:
Quote from: preddy08 on October 08, 2008, 07:55:49 PM
Your JE piston wont work with the big stroker cranks. You'll have to buy a new one. While your at it you might as well go big on compression too.
Why is that preddy?
I have an 11.25mm stroker in mine with a JE 11:1 comp piston running an actual 12:1 comp with custom cut eyebrowns in it. And have had no problems yet. I also heard that the JE was not a real tough piston but i was wondering what your thoughts on it are....
Quote from: White Rider on October 09, 2008, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on October 08, 2008, 07:55:49 PM
Your JE piston wont work with the big stroker cranks. You'll have to buy a new one. While your at it you might as well go big on compression too.
Why is that preddy?
I have an 11.25mm stroker in mine with a JE 11:1 comp piston running an actual 12:1 comp with custom cut eyebrowns in it. And have had no problems yet. I also heard that the JE was not a real tough piston but i was wondering what your thoughts on it are....
Don't you have to buy a piston made for the larger stroker cranks? 90% sure you do, for corrected pin heigth ??? If you are spending all that money on the high dollar crank you might as well get a GOOD CP piston and up the compression. JE and Weiscos are decent for an off the shelf piston, but when you are in that deep you might as well go all the way.
Well i guess im the other 10% :thumbs: I built a cylinder riser to fit my crank and only flycut deeper eyebrown in my piston that i have had.
Quote from: White Rider on October 09, 2008, 07:43:16 PM
Well i guess im the other 10% :thumbs: I built a cylinder riser to fit my crank and only flycut deeper eyebrown in my piston that i have had.
I was just fixing to ask if you were running a spacer under your jug when you were posting that :)
I agree preddy. Im not going to go cheap thats for sure. Im just trying get outta someone if boring to a 105mm and 14:1 piston would be as effective as stroking a stockbore with 14:1 piston. if i can achieve the same results without splitting the cases i would like to do that.however if im going to gain a shit load of power and performance to bore to 105mm,14:1 piston, and stroke it all together i may go that route
Yes sir I do. But that us the only way you can get away with a stroke that big and the rod length that i have. If you go to like a +4mm all you have to do is run a stroker piston. Anything else is stroker piston and shorter rod, which i didnt want to do. I know that you are aware of this Randy....im just saying it for other people.
Damn....I must be goin blind....I just saw you had 1/2'' cylinder spacer in your siggy.....
I just made my sig. Im a newbie :thumbs: So ur not all that crazy.....haha
ok, I guess I'm not going blind yet :lol:
Glad to see you over here :thumbs:
Thanks, i just got a PM about it and said what the hell. It seems like a really good site.
could i start with boring to 105mm and install the cp stroker piston now. and if thats not enough than down the road install the stroker crank. This way i wouldnt have to buy another piston down the road if i wanted to make it a stroker
Quote from: White Rider on October 09, 2008, 08:08:26 PM
Thanks, i just got a PM about it and said what the hell. It seems like a really good site.
I think you'll like it here, it is an excellent forum :thumbs:
Quote from: 1badazz_700r on October 09, 2008, 08:10:06 PM
could i start with boring to 105mm and install the cp stroker piston now. and if thats not enough than down the road install the stroker crank. This way i wouldnt have to buy another piston down the road if i wanted to make it a stroker
If you put the stroker piston on the stock stroke and rod your gonna be down in the hole and give up a good amount of compression.
If your gonna just bore it for now then I wouldn't run the stroker piston then when and if you decide to go with the +8mm crank I would do like Troy suggested and get a -4mm rod installed on the crank and have it trued ,welded and balanced.
But to me it makes a lot more sense to just save up and do it all at once and be done with it if you are really serious about stroking it in the near future.
If you will even have enough to detonate.....I wouldnt reccomend doing that. Go 105 then later on down the road get a stroker crank and piston. But if it were me i would do it all at once so you dont have to buy a piston twice.
Raptor randy, what would you recommend.I dont really trust my local machine shops to much. so im looking at what ever is basically a drop in part.i dont mind sending my cylinder out of state to have it bored and sleeved and upgraded for bigger studs because shipping is cheap that way. but i dont want to have to send my whole engine out. so would i be happy with just boring 105mm and 14:1 piston based on my mods in my signature? or hold out for the bigbore-stroker. I trust your judgment randy.
white rider i would rather do everything at once rather than buy 2 pistons actually would be my 4th and 4 tear downs. I want the next one to satisfy me for awhile :lol: dont get me wrong it runs like a mofo right now. im just weighing my options to see if its worth doing another rebuild. I just want what ever is the least amount of machine work. Thats why i wanted a drop in stroker crank and just send my cylinder out to be bored
From what I have seen JUST boring does'nt really do a whole lot. Maybe a few ponys and a some down low TQ. I think you will be disapointed once you get it runnin. I would just save up and do the bore/stroke/piston all at once.
Did you ever think about the +5 hot rod crank. Its a cheap alternative. Troywcc came to my parts last weekend and his bike is about the same build as mine, but he had the crank in his. He was constantly 2-3 or more bikes ahead of me.
Quote from: 1badazz_700r on October 09, 2008, 08:23:57 PM
Raptor randy, what would you recommend.I dont really trust my local machine shops to much. so im looking at what ever is basically a drop in part.i dont mind sending my cylinder out of state to have it bored and sleeved and upgraded for bigger studs because shipping is cheap that way. but i dont want to have to send my whole engine out. so would i be happy with just boring 105mm and 14:1 piston based on my mods in my signature? or hold out for the bigbore-stroker. I trust your judgment randy.
It's hard to say....it's definitly less money to just have it bored and get a 14:1 piston. The 727's can run good and hard with the right combination of porting, cam, piston and custom advance curve. But if your even thinking your wanting to stroke it, after some time your probably gonna wish you would have done it in the first place. It all depends on your budget and what kind of HP & TQ your gonna get out of it.
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
From what I have seen JUST boring does'nt really do a whole lot. Maybe a few ponys and a some down low TQ. I think you will be disapointed once you get it runnin. I would just save up and do the bore/stroke/piston all at once.
Did you ever think about the +5 hot rod crank. Its a cheap alternative. Troywcc came to my parts last weekend and his bike is about the same build as mine, but he had the crank in his. He was constantly 2-3 or more bikes ahead of me.
Oh, and I forgot to mention that Troywcc's bike was sporting a new fancy Racers Edge CNC port work too 8) 8)
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
From what I have seen JUST boring does'nt really do a whole lot. Maybe a few ponys and a some down low TQ. I think you will be disapointed once you get it runnin. I would just save up and do the bore/stroke/piston all at once.
I agree 100%
Well im not to conceredabout the money part of it,So that leaves me to my last question :clap:what is the biggest stroker crank you can install without boring the cases? Thanks
Looks like the +8 is as big as you can go with out trenching.
I remember hearing about Rocket Factory having a +12 or 15 that you dont have to trench.
Make sure you talk to someone that knows there shit before you order so you get your rod angle where it should be.
Quote from: 1badazz_700r on October 09, 2008, 08:43:46 PM
Well im not to conceredabout the money part of it,So that leaves me to my last question :clap:what is the biggest stroker crank you can install without boring the cases? Thanks
12mil to 15mil from what I have been told, but I have no first hand experience with that big of a stroker crank, not yet anyway.
:lol: You beat me to it again :lol:
Quote from: RaptorRandy on October 09, 2008, 08:52:00 PM
:lol: You beat me to it again :lol:
Its them youthful fingers getting all worked up...lol.
Quote from: RaptorRandy on October 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
From what I have seen JUST boring does'nt really do a whole lot. Maybe a few ponys and a some down low TQ. I think you will be disapointed once you get it runnin. I would just save up and do the bore/stroke/piston all at once.
I agree 100%
Holy SH@T, Print screen, print screen damn you slow ass computer. This type of phenomenon won't last
:lol:
Quote from: Colorado700R on October 09, 2008, 08:56:32 PM
Quote from: RaptorRandy on October 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
From what I have seen JUST boring does'nt really do a whole lot. Maybe a few ponys and a some down low TQ. I think you will be disapointed once you get it runnin. I would just save up and do the bore/stroke/piston all at once.
I agree 100%
Holy SH@T, Print screen, print screen damn you slow ass computer. This type of phenomenon won't last
:lol:
hey...you just settle down now :lol:
yes pappi :(
:lol:
Wanna see my face when I read that.
:jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:
See, we can play nice.......sometimes.
Quote from: RaptorRandy on October 09, 2008, 08:58:34 PM
Quote from: Colorado700R on October 09, 2008, 08:56:32 PM
Quote from: RaptorRandy on October 09, 2008, 08:38:52 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 08:30:05 PM
From what I have seen JUST boring does'nt really do a whole lot. Maybe a few ponys and a some down low TQ. I think you will be disapointed once you get it runnin. I would just save up and do the bore/stroke/piston all at once.
I agree 100%
Holy SH@T, Print screen, print screen damn you slow ass computer. This type of phenomenon won't last
:lol:
hey...you just settle down now :lol:
I had to look twice to see if that was Randy's post! :lol:
Give a bottle of Crown SR, and a Raptor motor. We'll be up gosiping like little school girls allllll night :clap: :rofl:
Did someone say a bottle of Crown :grin_nod: If you give me a bottle of Crown and a rappy motor....if I can't fix it, I'll fix it so nobody can :lol:
Wow, this is the happiest thread I've ran into all month,lol
Crown SR even...........OOOOOOO gettin me all worked up now. :thud:
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 09:07:06 PM
Crown SR even...........OOOOOOO gettin me all worked up now. :thud:
You got my mouth watering......I'm gonna have to go grab my jug now :)
Troy, you wanna chime in with your thoughts on the hot rod crank?
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 09:13:07 PM
Troy, you wanna chime in with your thoughts on the hot rod crank?
I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on it now that he has run it hard as well. I was a little leary of them based on what I have seen on their cranks in the 660's as well as the Honda 450R's, but it sound like their a viable option on the 700R based builds
I like it, I like it alot :thumbs:
Quote from: troywcc on October 09, 2008, 09:17:42 PM
I like it, I like it alot :thumbs:
Were talkin cranks not HAWG!!! :rofl: :rofl:
I will say that it seems to be a great crank for the money, no vibration, no loss of top end, in fact my bike is all topend now with no loss in bottom end. So far so good, just have to weed out the weak links that are showing up here and there. Now I just need to get the lockup and clutch tossed in and try to get to Little Sahara next week.
I like the hoggin too, good hoggin in Nebraska if anyone is interested :thumbs:
Quote from: RaptorRandy on October 09, 2008, 09:17:29 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 09:13:07 PM
Troy, you wanna chime in with your thoughts on the hot rod crank?
I'd be interested to hear his thoughts on it now that he has run it hard as well. I was a little leary of them based on what I have seen on their cranks in the 660's as well as the Honda 450R's, but it sound like their a viable option on the 700R based builds
I like the Hot Rod crank because they are a local company, and Tony Tice man still has the hookup's with them.
BUT
We put a +3 crank in a buddys YFZ and it would vibrate you teeth out after two laps on the track! It had full suspension with antivibe everything too boot. It was so bad that it wore out BRAND new crank bearing and sent the piston into the head/valves, cracked the piston, sent the wrist pin into the tranny, then the piston through the side of the cylinder.
But after seeing how smooth Troys bike ran last weekend it reinstill my warm fuzzy feeling with them.
And yes, good hoggin in Nebraska.
Quote from: troywcc on October 09, 2008, 09:21:01 PM
I will say that it seems to be a great crank for the money, no vibration, no loss of top end, in fact my bike is all topend now with no loss in bottom end. So far so good, just have to weed out the weak links that are showing up here and there. Now I just need to get the lockup and clutch tossed in and try to get to Little Sahara next week.
Thats good to hear.......I might be doing a build for a buddy who wants the HR +5mm crank.
Preddy Rich's Honda 450 in our camp has the hotrod +3 crank in it and it doesn't vibrate, for some reason those yamaha 450 cranks are very very nasty, so much so you can barely hang on to them. I know I'll eventually go bigger with the motor but I have no regrets at all so far going with the hot rod. I will admit I was a little bit nervous about getting it with the problems the 660's have been having but so far so good. Time will tell for sure, I only have a few weekends on this setup so I'll keep my fingers crossed,lol.
Ok.....you do not have to do any trenching of any cases for stroker cranks, thats in banshees. In 700 motors the first thing you come to is the counterweights. The max limit on a stock crank for a stroke is +12 because you get to the end and it is tapered making it weaker. Any more than that and you should go billet, which may require very little machining on the counters for clearance......oh and this is with a barker rod, its a smaller bearing rod.
I need to get my rappy to the tice man damn it... :mad:
Heard nothing but good bout him!
Are the planets all lined up or something?
Is that Kum By Ya I hear?
:lol:
~Brian
Quote from: Flynbyu on October 10, 2008, 02:49:02 PM
Are the planets all lined up or something?
Is that Kum By Ya I hear?
:lol:
~Brian
better than kum of sum yung gui :lol:
Quote from: preddy08 on October 09, 2008, 07:40:25 PM
Quote from: White Rider on October 09, 2008, 07:31:02 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on October 08, 2008, 07:55:49 PM
Your JE piston wont work with the big stroker cranks. You'll have to buy a new one. While your at it you might as well go big on compression too.
Why is that preddy?
I have an 11.25mm stroker in mine with a JE 11:1 comp piston running an actual 12:1 comp with custom cut eyebrowns in it. And have had no problems yet. I also heard that the JE was not a real tough piston but i was wondering what your thoughts on it are....
Don't you have to buy a piston made for the larger stroker cranks? 90% sure you do, for corrected pin heigth ??? If you are spending all that money on the high dollar crank you might as well get a GOOD CP piston and up the compression. JE and Weiscos are decent for an off the shelf piston, but when you are in that deep you might as well go all the way.
+1 The CP really is the way to go if you are spending that much money on a new crank. Lets face it, the piston takes a lot of abuse.
Grant
there are other pistons that are as good if not better.
Tim, are you having custom Diamond brand pistons built ?
I will say my Barker speced piston took about 5 hits before the valve finally broke thru it and stuck.
yes diamond is building some for us.
Quote from: tbarker on October 11, 2008, 07:59:31 AM
yes diamond is building some for us.
Diamond makes an excellent piston :thumbs:
Thats for damn sure. If you are buying the last piston you think you ever will, buy a diamond.