Just wondering who has a good stroker crank out there right now. I think you can go with a +8 before trenching the cases correct?
Wondering about stroker vs long rods. I would prefer a long rod. And how much?
Then...who wants to install it :rofl: :clap:
Jason had told me you can go +11 without any trenching worries..... and for the +15 it only took about .040 thou off the crank.... which they can also do inhouse for a small fee
I have a +12 Barker Billet. Rocket Factory put the whole thing together. Its a long Rod so it also requires a 1/2" spacer. I also had them do the install and the whole build went flawlessly. I would definitely recommend you go with the Long Rod Crank as well as the Rocket Factory.
Could someone explain these new long rods. I keep hearing about them.
They add a spacer to the bottom of the Jug. This allows you to run a longer rod witch inturn lessens the rod angle. On my build now my rod angle is less then stock. It russ smooth with less vibration then when it was brand new but a ton of TQ. I think it did 72fp on Jasons Dyno.
Quote from: powder coater on July 28, 2008, 06:45:32 AM
They add a spacer to the bottom of the Jug. This allows you to run a longer rod witch inturn lessens the rod angle. On my build now my rod angle is less then stock. It russ smooth with less vibration then when it was brand new but a ton of TQ. I think it did 72fp on Jasons Dyno.
So would that be 32 on every other dyno. :rofl:
Just kidding bro. :lol:
I'm real curious to see the TQ it's makes on Rooster Builts dyno......I love stump pulling torquey builds.......this will give me a great comparison to my 60+ ft lbs of TQ I made on the same dyno with my 780 and help me determine a future upgrade path :thumbs:
a +12 rod. :jaw:
that's what I'm freaking talking about! :grin_nod: :grin_nod:
Quote from: Krandall on July 28, 2008, 01:54:08 PM
a +12 rod. :jaw:
that's what I'm freaking talking about! :grin_nod: :grin_nod:
sweet! I bet that would have a nice loud exhaust note :thumbs:
and, krandall, maybe you have had too much "rod" already. :grin_nod:
Quote from: Krandall on July 28, 2008, 01:54:08 PM
a +12 rod. :jaw:
that's what I'm freaking talking about! :grin_nod: :grin_nod:
That's what she said :rofl: :grin_nod:
Quote from: troywcc on July 28, 2008, 07:50:14 PM
Quote from: Krandall on July 28, 2008, 01:54:08 PM
a +12 rod. :jaw:
that's what I'm freaking talking about! :grin_nod: :grin_nod:
That's what she said :rofl: :grin_nod:
:rofl:
f*ckin bastards! :lol:
I'm very interested in these long rod builds. I wonder if they are more reliable then the common builds.
If you have to add a 1/2" spacer to the cylinder then how does the motor still fit in the frame. Do you have to mod the top motor mounts or what?
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:34:38 AM
If you have to add a 1/2" spacer to the cylinder then how does the motor still fit in the frame. Do you have to mod the top motor mounts or what?
I have no clue. I'm still learning about these builds.
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 10:40:31 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:34:38 AM
If you have to add a 1/2" spacer to the cylinder then how does the motor still fit in the frame. Do you have to mod the top motor mounts or what?
I have no clue. I'm still learning about these builds.
Powder coater can tell us...he's got the 12mm long rod. Oh Paul....
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 10:40:31 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:34:38 AM
If you have to add a 1/2" spacer to the cylinder then how does the motor still fit in the frame. Do you have to mod the top motor mounts or what?
I have no clue. I'm still learning about these builds.
Powder coater can tell us...he's got the 12mm long rod. Oh Paul....
He spent all that money just to chase you down.
:lol:
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 10:46:34 AM
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 10:44:53 AM
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 10:40:31 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:34:38 AM
If you have to add a 1/2" spacer to the cylinder then how does the motor still fit in the frame. Do you have to mod the top motor mounts or what?
I have no clue. I'm still learning about these builds.
Powder coater can tell us...he's got the 12mm long rod. Oh Paul....
He spent all that money just to chase you down.
:lol:
Yes, he did. He got the best of me at Sandfest. It should have been me and him in the final, but I launched in the WRONG gear on the first race and "red-lighted" in the 2nd. 2 strike's and my day was over. :'( His bike hauls AZZ.
Subs quad rarely leaves the barn. Yes the top motor mount needs to be re drilled but there is still plenty of room. I also think ver a period of time these will last longer before cylinder wall distortion becomes a problem. As far as reliability the current 8mm stroke motors have been very reliable. Its to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 11:06:32 AM
Subs quad rarely leaves the barn. Yes the top motor mount needs to be re drilled but there is still plenty of room. I also think ver a period of time these will last longer before cylinder wall distortion becomes a problem. As far as reliability the current 8mm stroke motors have been very reliable. Its to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Stay tuned peep's....we'll be doing some 300ft racing next month. THEN, I'm burning the flag that Paul has on his bike. :clap:
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 11:06:32 AM
Subs quad rarely leaves the barn. Yes the top motor mount needs to be re drilled but there is still plenty of room. I also think ver a period of time these will last longer before cylinder wall distortion becomes a problem. As far as reliability the current 8mm stroke motors have been very reliable. Its to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Stay tuned peep's....we'll be doing some 300ft racing next month. THEN, I'm burning the flag that Paul has on his bike. :clap:
What does the flag say? "kenzboy's butts drive me nuts"?
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 11:12:18 AM
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 11:06:32 AM
Subs quad rarely leaves the barn. Yes the top motor mount needs to be re drilled but there is still plenty of room. I also think ver a period of time these will last longer before cylinder wall distortion becomes a problem. As far as reliability the current 8mm stroke motors have been very reliable. Its to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Stay tuned peep's....we'll be doing some 300ft racing next month. THEN, I'm burning the flag that Paul has on his bike. :clap:
What does the flag say? "kenzboy's butts drive me nuts"?
I'm sure Paul would be proud to post a picture of it....he has no shame. I went to dinner at his place last weekend. As soon as I walked in the front door, I saw his 2 trophys from Sandfest. Those RF boys love to rub it in :lol:
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 11:12:18 AM
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 11:06:32 AM
Subs quad rarely leaves the barn. Yes the top motor mount needs to be re drilled but there is still plenty of room. I also think ver a period of time these will last longer before cylinder wall distortion becomes a problem. As far as reliability the current 8mm stroke motors have been very reliable. Its to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Stay tuned peep's....we'll be doing some 300ft racing next month. THEN, I'm burning the flag that Paul has on his bike. :clap:
What does the flag say? "kenzboy's butts drive me nuts"?
I'm sure Paul would be proud to post a picture of it....he has no shame. I went to dinner at his place last weekend. As soon as I walked in the front door, I saw his 2 trophys from Sandfest. Those RF boys love to rub it in :lol:
If we could just get a certain kenz boy to learn how to start.
:lol:
Where is mister learn to launch (aka Grant) to tell us how its done.
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 11:18:29 AM
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:16:23 AM
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 11:12:18 AM
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:10:23 AM
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 11:06:32 AM
Subs quad rarely leaves the barn. Yes the top motor mount needs to be re drilled but there is still plenty of room. I also think ver a period of time these will last longer before cylinder wall distortion becomes a problem. As far as reliability the current 8mm stroke motors have been very reliable. Its to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Stay tuned peep's....we'll be doing some 300ft racing next month. THEN, I'm burning the flag that Paul has on his bike. :clap:
What does the flag say? "kenzboy's butts drive me nuts"?
I'm sure Paul would be proud to post a picture of it....he has no shame. I went to dinner at his place last weekend. As soon as I walked in the front door, I saw his 2 trophys from Sandfest. Those RF boys love to rub it in :lol:
If we could just get a certain kenz boy to learn how to start.
:lol:
Where is mister learn to launch (aka Grant) to tell us how its done.
He still has to learn to hold the throttle WIDE OPEN, THEN let the clutch out. It's such a rush to have it bouncing off the rev limiter and let the clutch go...I'm hooked.
That must be quite the rush. I still have to look into my next build. I don't plan on turning this into a "hill only" bike. But I have the power hungry bug.
Here you go.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 12:41:44 PM
Here you go.
So how much did it cost to make him your bitch?
:lol:
QuoteIts to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Shit....you still need to run down the old man on the wore out lil 780 with your ass onboard your own bike, before you start after the 797's ;) :lol: :grin_nod:
:poke: :satan:
Quote from: RaptorRandy on July 29, 2008, 12:58:21 PM
QuoteIts to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Shit....you still need to run down the old man on the wore out lil 780 with your ass onboard your own bike, before you start after the 797's ;) :lol: :grin_nod:
:poke: :satan:
damn old man is a light weight now. I think I'll send you a few chicago style pizzas before I line up against you.
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: RaptorRandy on July 29, 2008, 12:58:21 PM
QuoteIts to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Shit....you still need to run down the old man on the wore out lil 780 with your ass onboard your own bike, before you start after the 797's ;) :lol: :grin_nod:
:poke: :satan:
damn old man is a light weight now. I think I'll send you a few chicago style pizzas before I line up against you.
:lol:
Quote from: RaptorRandy on July 29, 2008, 01:06:34 PM
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 01:01:27 PM
Quote from: RaptorRandy on July 29, 2008, 12:58:21 PM
QuoteIts to soon to say how long they will run. The long rod give you more options for running down the Kenz 797.
Shit....you still need to run down the old man on the wore out lil 780 with your ass onboard your own bike, before you start after the 797's ;) :lol: :grin_nod:
:poke: :satan:
damn old man is a light weight now. I think I'll send you a few chicago style pizzas before I line up against you.
:lol:
and a few crowns too. Maybe if I get you fat and drunk I'll have a chance.
:lol:
With all these new builds coming out all the time....mines gonna start looking like a damn 3 mod compared to them here soon ::) Me, I'm gonna just sit back and watch everyone else spend money for a while ;) :)
Quote from: RaptorRandy on July 29, 2008, 01:21:36 PM
With all these new builds coming out all the time....mines gonna start looking like a damn 3 mod compared to them here soon ::) Me, I'm gonna just sit back and watch everyone else spend money for a while ;) :)
same here......till this winter. I didn't want to do it before with the way my industry was. Now things are looking up.
Look you sawed off little shit. Dont make me spend more money on a RaptorRandy is my Bitch flag. You just want me to ride so you have the weight advantage. We will set a starter like Shot called did for Mike and I to keep you from your famous roll start. :P
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 02:04:14 PM
Look you sawed off little shit. Dont make me spend more money on a RaptorRandy is my Bitch flag. You just want me to ride so you have the weight advantage. We will set a starter like Shot called did for Mike and I to keep you from your famous roll start. :P
:lol: :rofl:
You better pack a lunch big fella....it's gonna take till I run outta gas for you to outrun me :P You know I can have one of them flags made too :grin_nod:
Quote from: RaptorRandy on July 29, 2008, 03:13:18 PM
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 02:04:14 PM
Look you sawed off little shit. Dont make me spend more money on a RaptorRandy is my Bitch flag. You just want me to ride so you have the weight advantage. We will set a starter like Shot called did for Mike and I to keep you from your famous roll start. :P
:lol: :rofl:
You better pack a lunch big fella....it's gonna take till I run outta gas for you to outrun me :P You know I can have one of them flags made too :grin_nod:
With the crown royal logo?
:lol:
Quote from: RaptorRandy on July 29, 2008, 01:21:36 PM
With all these new builds coming out all the time....mines gonna start looking like a damn 3 mod compared to them here soon ::) Me, I'm gonna just sit back and watch everyone else spend money for a while ;) :)
Isn't that sad? :lol:
It's like me going out to Silver Lake last year.. Riding around my parents place. I have the world by the balls. There isn't anyone with a build near as close to the 3 mod rappy.. I get out to Silver Lake. I have 450's handing me my ass on a silver platter :mad:
Makes you want more.... So I build more.. I kick everyones ass around my parts again.... We'll see come Sept 12th how I line up again.... :lol:
There he goes again just like I said. Now he wants me to bring a lunch to the hill. The 50 pound weight difference isnt enough for him. When I am the first to the top of the hill i think I will eat a celebratory Twinkie
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 05:34:25 PM
There he goes again just like I said. Now he wants me to bring a lunch to the hill. The 50 pound weight difference isnt enough for him. When I am the first to the top of the hill i think I will eat a celebratory Twinkie
:lol: -----------> I found you guys and you haven't changed a bit.
Grant
Hell no Grant. Im just getting started with old randy. I have all you Kenz boys calling me Mr. Powder Coater soon enough.
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 05:53:26 PM
Hell no Grant. Im just getting started with old randy. I have all you Kenz boys calling me Mr. Powder Coater soon enough.
That a boy powder coater.....LOL
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 05:53:26 PM
Hell no Grant. Im just getting started with old randy. I have all you Kenz boys calling me Mr. Powder Coater soon enough.
You'll always be Powder Puff to me :lol:
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 05:53:26 PM
Hell no Grant. Im just getting started with old randy. I have all you Kenz boys calling me Mr. Powder Coater soon enough.
I shall dub you captain fluffy.
:lol:
Quote from: digitalhearing on July 29, 2008, 05:46:10 PM
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 05:34:25 PM
There he goes again just like I said. Now he wants me to bring a lunch to the hill. The 50 pound weight difference isnt enough for him. When I am the first to the top of the hill i think I will eat a celebratory Twinkie
:lol: -----------> I found you guys and you haven't changed a bit.
Grant
Welcome aboard Grant, glad to see you here :thumbs:
Welcome aboard Grant, glad to see you here :thumbs:
[/quote]
You obviously don't know Grant very well.
Quote from: powder coater on July 29, 2008, 09:43:35 PM
Welcome aboard Grant, glad to see you here :thumbs:
You obviously don't know Grant very well.
[/quote]
Hey, that's my KENZ brotha....watch out :slap:
[quote aAuthor=powder coater link=topic=1282.msg39385#msg39385 date=1217389415]
Welcome aboard Grant, glad to see you here :thumbs:
[/quote]
You obviously don't know Grant very well.
[/quote]
Ok, Paul, i mean Mr. Coater, Could you graciously give me an update on my A Arms? My bike awaits your detailed craftsmanship and deep glossy material you coat A arms with. If could call me with a tracking # when they are in UPS's hands ? (then I can edit this post and get back to calling you names :lol: )
Grant
Colorado, thanks for the welcome, and eveyrone else too. Lately at the old "house" It has felt like I went on vacation and when I came back, I couldn't find my home, ??? kind of like a homeless person must feel.....I wondered around for the last couple of months LOST. If it wern't for Sub, I'd still be homeless, Thanks Brother for showing me the way :thumbs:
Welcome Grant :clap: :thumbs:
If he doesn't get you your A-arms soon, can I change his ID to powder cooter ? :lol:
Quote from: Colorado700R on July 29, 2008, 10:19:33 PM
If he doesn't get you your A-arms soon, can I change his ID to powder cooter ? :lol:
Be nice to him, he probably has a grinder in one hand and my A arm in the other....He really is the best as what he does.........now put down the power tool.......please..... ::)
Grant
Quote from: digitalhearing on July 29, 2008, 10:30:13 PM
Quote from: Colorado700R on July 29, 2008, 10:19:33 PM
If he doesn't get you your A-arms soon, can I change his ID to powder cooter ? :lol:
Be nice to him, he probably has a grinder in one hand and my A arm in the other....He really is the best as what he does.........now put down the power tool.......please..... ::)
Grant
:rofl:
yeah, I'm gonna need his help for my build this winter
Quote from: Colorado700R on July 29, 2008, 10:40:55 PM
Quote from: digitalhearing on July 29, 2008, 10:30:13 PM
Quote from: Colorado700R on July 29, 2008, 10:19:33 PM
If he doesn't get you your A-arms soon, can I change his ID to powder cooter ? :lol:
Be nice to him, he probably has a grinder in one hand and my A arm in the other....He really is the best as what he does.........now put down the power tool.......please..... ::)
Grant
:rofl:
yeah, I'm gonna need his help for my build this winter
(Fire away at him now,,,,he has a short memory, he'll forget all about it by winter. ) Paul, can I buy you breakfast later this week? How's that glossy orange turning out?
It just donnned on me, are we really screwing with somone's thread? I'm sorry, let's get back to being nice to Mr. Coater.
Grant
I guess we did kinda jack this thread...sorry. What was the topic of this thread again? ???
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:03:59 PM
I guess we did kinda jack this thread...sorry. What was the topic of this thread again? ???
it doesnt really matter, this is raptorsource after all.
whore on 8)
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:03:59 PM
I guess we did kinda jack this thread...sorry. What was the topic of this thread again? ???
Seriously, I have an 8mm stroke 797 and I have ridden the crap out of my bike, almost every weekend, for over a year now. The rod angle must be fine, cause I have no vibration at all, and it still runs as strong as ever. Lots of fresh oil changes help too :)
Grant
LOL :rofl: :rofl: We missed you guys LOL
Another question...I know you don't have to remap when changing compression, but do you have to when changing stroke?
So are you saying I should just go all out and do the biggest I can go without trenching? +12? Would that be ok with stock bore? Or should I stay with +10 or +8 and not have to extend the deck 1/2". Compression will be around 13:1
I personally have no experience with a big stroke and stock bore. I know Grant's and my 797 run awesome. If your dead-set on staying stock bore...I'd call atleast 4 builders and get there take on what you'd like to do. You may get some good direction for your build. 1 thing I would do is...if your gonna go bigger then +8 stroke, I'd look into a long-rod build. You'll have a much better rod angle.
Great idea Sub. Call a few of the experts and pick there brain. One thing I have noticed is after each build I wish I went just a little more. On the sand Im not sure you can have to much. The good thing is the cranks costs the same +4 or +15. If you ride anywear around Southern Oregon your welcome to through your leg over mine and give grant a run for his money. Grants the one with the large target on his back if you have never met him.
The more I read the more I think a 797 is in order for my winter build. But since I'm half crazy i'm going to keep it on a +2 swing arm. But I would like to make it up to the great northwest so i can try Mr. Coaters on for size.
Quote from: digitalhearing on July 29, 2008, 11:14:57 PM
Quote from: SUB454 on July 29, 2008, 11:03:59 PM
I guess we did kinda jack this thread...sorry. What was the topic of this thread again? ???
Seriously, I have an 8mm stroke 797 and I have ridden the crap out of my bike, almost every weekend, for over a year now. The rod angle must be fine, cause I have no vibration at all, and it still runs as strong as ever. Lots of fresh oil changes help too :)
Grant
We did get of track here a little didn't we :lol: My apologies, I had to mess with my buddy Paul a little ;)
Grant....I'm glad you signed up my friend, this is like the old days again 8)
I don't ride mine near as much now as I did the first year I had it, but it has a lot of time on it now and I have had the same experience as Grant. I was going to jump up to a 108mm cylinder but after see a very simular combination of +6mm stroke with a 108 jug (825cc) and Billet TB only make a couple more HP than my 105mm +6 stroke, I just can't justify the expense in my mind. I think the 797 is a pretty tough combo to beat and if I were just coming into this now that is more than likely what I would go with for a fast duner.
I'm just not seeing a big difference in the performance of these bigger builds compared to a well tuned 797 with the current camshaft technology. Then you have these stock bores making within a few HP of the big builds. Whoda thunk it ??? Hopefully that will change soon and we can see the big gains one would expect to see with these 850cc and up Big bore and stroke 700R based builds. Now I am not saying their not fast, some flat get with it, Powder Coaters is one of them, it's just that on the hill they all seem to be pretty damn close IMHO which makes it real tough to make a choice on which direction to go at this time. Ok, enough of my rambling for now.......
Hey Paul.......I think I got something for you at Winchester in Sept :grin_nod:
Randy
Well hell, I have really fought the urge to build engines...... I guess I will go ahead and start now. I have all of the Barker cranks available. If you go long rod the +12 will allow you the stock pin height. Anything bigger requires a new piston, but I can do 15,18, and 20 mm strokers and I can trim the counterweights in house. I also expect my first "secret squirrel" cam today or tomorrow, which is the highest lift available for this engine by a long shot :grin_nod:
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 07:36:06 AM
Well hell, I have really fought the urge to build engines...... I guess I will go ahead and start now. I have all of the Barker cranks available. If you go long rod the +12 will allow you the stock pin height. Anything bigger requires a new piston, but I can do 15,18, and 20 mm strokers and I can trim the counterweights in house. I also expect my first "secret squirrel" cam today or tomorrow, which is the highest lift available for this engine by a long shot :grin_nod:
:jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:'
OH F*CKING SH*T SONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 07:36:06 AM
Well hell, I have really fought the urge to build engines...... I guess I will go ahead and start now. I have all of the Barker cranks available. If you go long rod the +12 will allow you the stock pin height. Anything bigger requires a new piston, but I can do 15,18, and 20 mm strokers and I can trim the counterweights in house. I also expect my first "secret squirrel" cam today or tomorrow, which is the highest lift available for this engine by a long shot :grin_nod:
Dibbs on the first
crazy redneck Kenny build! :clap:
Damn! Let the fun begin!!!!
I had someone lined up to build engines, but he did not want to crack the cases and a couple more insurmountable issues...... My whole product line should be done by the end of August. The plan is to come back from vacation (the beach) and hit it head on. I'm gonna go ahead and start building a shop(3,000 sq ft or so), with a "clean room" for engine assembly. 8)
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 07:49:46 AM
I had someone lined up to build engines, but he did not want to crack the cases and a couple more insurmountable issues...... My whole product line should be done by the end of August. The plan is to come back from vacation (the beach) and hit it head on. I'm gonna go ahead and start building a shop(3,000 sq ft or so), with a "clean room" for engine assembly. 8)
Bout time you turned to the darkside :lol: I don't know how much longer I could've kept up with the begging to do my build. :rofl:
Save me some time in Nov to start a build. , We's gots a mountain to climb kenny !! :grin_nod:
Sounds good Kenny. Now we're going to hold you to that date.
:thumbs:
I am trying to set up a jack shaft and mounting system to dyno the motors on a Stuska water brake engine dyno(crankshaft). It will be hard to get used to crankshaft horsepower #'s, but I can get WAY more info by being able to measure actual BSFC, CFM consumed, and be to watch real time timing curves. It also makes teardowns and adjustments way faster. It would be nice to have sufficient data to do some real parts design :grin_nod:
what would 20mil make with my 108 bore? What has to be done to the cases to run this? What type of rod angle would that create?
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 07:49:46 AM
I had someone lined up to build engines, but he did not want to crack the cases and a couple more insurmountable issues...... My whole product line should be done by the end of August. The plan is to come back from vacation (the beach) and hit it head on. I'm gonna go ahead and start building a shop(3,000 sq ft or so), with a "clean room" for engine assembly. 8)
Are you looking for employees? I'm looking to relocate.... :lol: ;)
Quote from: jwraptor on July 30, 2008, 08:16:59 AM
what would 20mil make with my 108 bore? What has to be done to the cases to run this? What type of rod angle would that create?
That would be about 951.704 cc's and a 8 mil longer rod for a r/s ratio of 1.37:1 which is a bit nasty for my taste :lol:
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 08:25:08 AM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 07:49:46 AM
I had someone lined up to build engines, but he did not want to crack the cases and a couple more insurmountable issues...... My whole product line should be done by the end of August. The plan is to come back from vacation (the beach) and hit it head on. I'm gonna go ahead and start building a shop(3,000 sq ft or so), with a "clean room" for engine assembly. 8)
Are you looking for employees? I'm looking to relocate.... :lol: ;)
???
Now is that nasty in a good way or bad way? What type of maintenance would need to be done? Right now I have a 108 bore with a +8 stroke.
Quote from: jwraptor on July 30, 2008, 09:09:54 AM
Now is that nasty in a good way or bad way? What type of maintenance would need to be done? Right now I have a 108 bore with a +8 stroke.
Bad... It would be one crazy ass torque motor though :grin_nod:
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 08:46:15 AM
That would be about 951.704 cc's and a 8 mil longer rod for a r/s ratio of 1.37:1 which is a bit nasty for my taste :lol:
Kenny, What's the stock r/s ratio?
damn.... 951 cc's..... I'm sayin give it a year and publicly there will be 1000cc rappy movin in the sand. :batman:
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 10:09:33 AM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 08:46:15 AM
That would be about 951.704 cc's and a 8 mil longer rod for a r/s ratio of 1.37:1 which is a bit nasty for my taste :lol:
Kenny, What's the stock r/s ratio?
damn.... 951 cc's..... I'm sayin give it a year and publicly there will be 1000cc rappy movin in the sand. :batman:
The stock R/S ratio is 1.6:1.....If we used a 110 and a +20 it would be a 987. I could use a longer rod and have a larger custom piston made, no sweat. The head flow will be an issue when we get to that size. The highest flowing head I have seen is at 378 cfm (thank you very much), but I don't know that it would sufficiently feed it. :confused:
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 10:09:33 AM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 08:46:15 AM
That would be about 951.704 cc's and a 8 mil longer rod for a r/s ratio of 1.37:1 which is a bit nasty for my taste :lol:
Kenny, What's the stock r/s ratio?
damn.... 951 cc's..... I'm sayin give it a year and publicly there will be 1000cc rappy movin in the sand. :batman:
The stock R/S ratio is 1.6:1.....If we used a 110 and a +20 it would be a 987. I could use a longer rod and have a larger custom piston made, no sweat. The head flow will be an issue when we get to that size. The highest flowing head I have seen is at 378 cfm (thank you very much), but I don't know that it would sufficiently feed it. :confused:
Two words........Forced Induction ;)
whats a safe r/s ratio w/ out going overboard?
I'm a semi noob at this stuff, but learning..
From what I can think... piston size wouldn't affect r/s ratio correct. since either way it would be in the same position no matter the piston size.
do you have some sort of magical chart that says this:
If you have x size piston you can run this rod length w/ this r/s ratio?
or a way I can calculate it myself?
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 10:45:13 AM
whats a safe r/s ratio w/ out going overboard?
I'm a semi noob at this stuff, but learning..
From what I can think... piston size wouldn't affect r/s ratio correct. since either way it would be in the same position no matter the piston size.
do you have some sort of magical chart that says this:
If you have x size piston you can run this rod length w/ this r/s ratio?
or a way I can calculate it myself?
It actually comes down to some fairly complicated "simulation" math that uses the piston weight x peak g force. The limitation is material strength used on the piston and rods. In extreme cases cylinder rock can be a problem. :'(
Limitation of the piston being what? How much force is being applied from the top due to compression? Or how much force is being applied from the Rod?
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 12:19:34 PM
Limitation of the piston being what? How much force is being applied from the top due to compression? Or how much force is being applied from the Rod?
The pin will pull right out. I have never had a failure due to a compressive load. 8)
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 12:23:46 PM
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 12:19:34 PM
Limitation of the piston being what? How much force is being applied from the top due to compression? Or how much force is being applied from the Rod?
The pin will pull right out. I have never had a failure due to a compressive load. 8)
I didn't think there'd be any due to compressive load... So, What kind of pistons are people running that are running stroked/long rod apps? CP?
I LIKE TATER TOTS :grin_nod:
Quote from: troywcc on July 30, 2008, 12:58:15 PM
I LIKE TATER TOTS :grin_nod:
give me your TOTS! :rofl:
:ot:
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 12:29:29 PM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 12:23:46 PM
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 12:19:34 PM
Limitation of the piston being what? How much force is being applied from the top due to compression? Or how much force is being applied from the Rod?
The pin will pull right out. I have never had a failure due to a compressive load. 8)
I didn't think there'd be any due to compressive load... So, What kind of pistons are people running that are running stroked/long rod apps? CP?
I know of only 3 long-rod builds. RocketFactory has 2...Pauls 12mm, Gene's 15mm. Kenz has 1...Mike Askin's(I think it's an 860). I believe CP is making the pistons to the builder's spec's.
Make that 4: WhiteKnuckle sent a 20mm oversea's :)
Everything that comes with the Barker cranks is made by Diamond to Tim's specs and use 2618 instead of 4032 material. I use Diamond for my custom pistons as well 8)
I know Hot Rods makes theirs out of 4115 Material.
I'm making my head spin thinking about stuff right now.... ::)
Quote from: Colorado700R on July 30, 2008, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 10:09:33 AM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 08:46:15 AM
That would be about 951.704 cc's and a 8 mil longer rod for a r/s ratio of 1.37:1 which is a bit nasty for my taste :lol:
Kenny, What's the stock r/s ratio?
damn.... 951 cc's..... I'm sayin give it a year and publicly there will be 1000cc rappy movin in the sand. :batman:
The stock R/S ratio is 1.6:1.....If we used a 110 and a +20 it would be a 987. I could use a longer rod and have a larger custom piston made, no sweat. The head flow will be an issue when we get to that size. The highest flowing head I have seen is at 378 cfm (thank you very much), but I don't know that it would sufficiently feed it. :confused:
Two words........Forced Induction ;)
That's what I'm thinking.....
Quote from: Pw383426 on July 30, 2008, 05:20:00 PM
Quote from: Colorado700R on July 30, 2008, 10:38:31 AM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 10:35:09 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 10:09:33 AM
Quote from: Kenny on July 30, 2008, 08:46:15 AM
That would be about 951.704 cc's and a 8 mil longer rod for a r/s ratio of 1.37:1 which is a bit nasty for my taste :lol:
Kenny, What's the stock r/s ratio?
damn.... 951 cc's..... I'm sayin give it a year and publicly there will be 1000cc rappy movin in the sand. :batman:
The stock R/S ratio is 1.6:1.....If we used a 110 and a +20 it would be a 987. I could use a longer rod and have a larger custom piston made, no sweat. The head flow will be an issue when we get to that size. The highest flowing head I have seen is at 378 cfm (thank you very much), but I don't know that it would sufficiently feed it. :confused:
Two words........Forced Induction ;)
That's what I'm thinking.....
;)
So this looks to be the place to be :clap: It was nice to read about this as it has answered some questions for me. I need to check with Eric with WK and see what pistion he is using in the 843 ??? I am staying with pump gas as this is just going to be a fun duner/ play at the hill for me. I know with my fat ass at 260lbs I will never hang with the rest but I will have fun anyway. Who knows I might take of 20 or 40 or 60 lbs some day ::). My stock CP12 to 1 lost all compreshion due to a bent valve caused by a ristpin elongation at the pistion. Eric told me had the valve not bent the pistion would have gone one way and the rod the other :( So I am happy with very little damage and I get a new motor. 108mm with a +8mm rod, I think it should be a good runner with all the other parts I have. Anyway looking forward to the 2009 raptor rally where we can run are new builds.
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 03:14:06 PM
I know Hot Rods makes theirs out of 4115 Material.
I'm making my head spin thinking about stuff right now.... ::)
Here is a handy little calculator from Tim Barker and crew.
http://rapidshare.com/files/181427580/updated_engine_calc.xls.html
Quote from: Kenny on January 09, 2009, 09:46:47 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 30, 2008, 03:14:06 PM
I know Hot Rods makes theirs out of 4115 Material.
I'm making my head spin thinking about stuff right now.... ::)
Here is a handy little calculator from Tim Barker and crew.
http://rapidshare.com/files/181427580/updated_engine_calc.xls.html
Kenny, please email me every PC3 map you have (Please give description), time to finish my data base ;)
hey Krandall does the calculator have enough information to confuse you :)
Im sure i cant run my JE 12:5 piston with a +5 stroker crank due to piston to valve clearance. Could some one verify this for sure for me?
Quote from: 1badazz_700r on January 11, 2009, 06:11:38 PM
Im sure i cant run my JE 12:5 piston with a +5 stroker crank due to piston to valve clearance. Could some one verify this for sure for me?
Yes, you can. I have seen a 13.5:1 and HR+5 crank with +1 valves combo.
it runs good and there is plenty of power
KBR ran the +5 crank with a venom 14.25 piston with no problems.
Am I the only one who finds irony in the fact that preddy posted in a thread named "CRANK" :lol:
Preddy I think the venom pistons have bigger valve reliefs than the JE. allowing more clearance. I think CP has bigger reliefs also. I just dont want to grenade it. :lol:
Quote from: 1badazz_700r on January 12, 2009, 04:01:57 AM
Preddy I think the venom pistons have bigger valve reliefs than the JE. allowing more clearance. I think CP has bigger reliefs also. I just dont want to grenade it. :lol:
Thats true, but you could always have the piston fly cut.
It will work just fine :thumbs:
Thanks troy.Now for the next question. How hard is it to install a crank in one of these motors. I have the manual and mechanically inclined. Just never split the cases on any quad motor,or should i just pay to have it done and save the hastle
ive been thinking about this as well, and after talking with kenny, if your engine is in good shape like mine (40h) its a simple open up and swap the parts, the hot rod crank i think comes with all the necessary bearings. kenny also told me that the oem head gasket is as good or better than the aftermarkets :thumbs:
is the +5 hotrod crank assembled with the rod on the crank already?
i havent seen it in person but the pictures i have seen show that they are.
that shouldnt be to bad i guess. just have to pay close attention to where we take every part from.I was more concerned about having to clearance the bearings and rod during assembly. If the rod is already installed it should be fairly easy
It's a piece of cake guys. If you are like me you do it once for yourself, you end up doing it for your buddies too. With that being said it's worth the two special tools you need to buy imho. I bought a crankcase splitter and a stator puller tool from Rocky Mountain Atv. The crank splitter was about 50 bucks and I wouldn't split a case without one even though the manual says you can. I also use this tool to press the crank out of the case. The stator tool is about 32 bucks and you can have your local shop do it for you for about the same price as the tool. It was worth it to me to own the tools for future projects. As far as an easy way to stay organized, I use big ziplock bags to organize all my stuff when tearing down. One bag will hold the stator, gears, and all bolts etc. on the left side, another bag for the right side, bag for the topend stuff, bag for the bottom end and splitting the cases. I use little bags to put into the big bags too when I want to keep little stuff together. I usually label the bags when I know the motor will be down for an extended period of time also. My best advice is take your time and don't get in a hurry and it's not a big deal at all. The first one I did for my bike I was super stressed waiting on parts to get overnighted and had a ride to make, long story short I got the motor built last minute, tossed it in and went racing hoping for the best. It worked out just fine but it was pretty stressful hauling ass to make it in time. When you have no timeline it's easy money :thumbs:
And yes the Rod and bearing come with the crankcase ready to go, no assembly needed, just install the crank and life is good.
Thanks troy very good write up :thumbs:
+1 on the ziploc bags and labeling them.. I did that when I tore my bike completely down. I had bags labeled for what they were saved me so much tim ein the process of putting it all back together!
Troy, thanks for the writeup. I'd love to tare a 700 down myself and install a crank. It really can't be that bad.
Grant
Grant once you do it you won't believe how easy it was. These motors are my favorite by far to tear into and rebuild. After doing a 450 this thing is great!
Very cool, I have all the confidence in the world taring down the head and replacing the piston. I watched a couple of times and then have done the last 3 on my own. Next I should try the crank------- it's definately a mental block I have to work through :)
Grant
Quote from: digitalhearing on January 23, 2009, 06:47:00 AM
Very cool, I have all the confidence in the world taring down the head and replacing the piston. I watched a couple of times and then have done the last 3 on my own. Next I should try the crank------- it's definately a mental block I have to work through :)
Grant
I think a lot of people are in that exact same boat Grant. :thumbs: I know I didn't want to do the piston on my rappy, never torn into the engine before. Always a scary thing, but I've helped my bro do his motor before. All you need is a copy of the manual. :thumbs: