Suspension Brainstorming

[Colorado700R]

I started this thread to capture new ideas for suspension modifications.  The purpose of this is to vet those "crazy" ideas through all our collective knowledge to find ideas with potential to add to performance.

In these types of exercises, there are no bad ideas or questions, nor will any whoring or ridiculing be tolerated.

[socalrappy700]

One thing I'm not a fan of on my build is how a LT set up will lower the stance of your quad.  I'm not sure I like that.  Can it be changed or is it important. 

[preddy08]

Don't eat that donut sitting on my desk

[socalrappy700]

Don't eat that donut sitting on my desk

Dropping pounds everyday.   

[Colorado700R]

I have an idea utlizing the fox float shocks (Air) with a few actuators/sensors and a small onboard pressure tank.

The "problem" I'm trying to address is frame yaw on high speed flat track corner exits.  Bamaquads Raptorsource banner illistrates the problem perfectly.  In that photo bama is in full counter steer and his right tire is planted while the left tire is in the air (even with a sway bar).  Although the issue is very obvious by looking at the front end, the true problem is that during the time that Bama's left front is unloaded, his left rear is also lacking bite due to the CG being shifted outwards.  So I presume that adding preload realtime to the right front(in this case) would bring the chassis to a more square angle and allow for better traction and control for corner exits.

The basic premiss i would like to try would be to be able to add preload (Air pressure ) from the small onboard tank based upon the load detected from sensors.  The added pressure would be injected then released back to the tank as soon as the suspension unloads.  The idea i have would be to start with a small pressure increase (~5psi to the loaded shock).  To set the amount would be simply done by compressing the tank to 5lbs over the comperssed value of the shock, then cycled through the uncrompressed shock for return to tank.


Thoughts?

Aaron

[Flynbyu]

What about relocated the shock towers for more suspension travel? Even an inch more would mak a huge difference.

~Brian

[socalrappy700]

What about relocated the shock towers for more suspension travel? Even an inch more would mak a huge difference.

~Brian

As long as you get a shock the correct length you'll be fine. 

[Bert]

I was watching my buddy flat track his Z400 this weekend & his shock setting were off, too soft.  Seems to be lots of adjustments between tracks.  This weekend he forgot to add spring rate.

 It would be cool if you could measure downforce on each corner up front during the race & view it later

[Bert]

Can anyone see a huge benefit to getting +3 +1 Arms & changing my wheel offset to 4/1 vs +2 arms & 3/2 offset wheels?

The downside now is replacing all my front wheels with 4/1 offset rims.

If I went with +2 arms I could still change most of my rims to 4/1 & keep a reasonably narrow width for trails......

[Peelz]

I have an idea utlizing the fox float shocks (Air) with a few actuators/sensors and a small onboard pressure tank.

The "problem" I'm trying to address is frame yaw on high speed flat track corner exits.  Bamaquads Raptorsource banner illistrates the problem perfectly.  In that photo bama is in full counter steer and his right tire is planted while the left tire is in the air (even with a sway bar).  Although the issue is very obvious by looking at the front end, the true problem is that during the time that Bama's left front is unloaded, his left rear is also lacking bite due to the CG being shifted outwards.  So I presume that adding preload realtime to the right front(in this case) would bring the chassis to a more square angle and allow for better traction and control for corner exits.

The basic premiss i would like to try would be to be able to add preload (Air pressure ) from the small onboard tank based upon the load detected from sensors.  The added pressure would be injected then released back to the tank as soon as the suspension unloads.  The idea i have would be to start with a small pressure increase (~5psi to the loaded shock).  To set the amount would be simply done by compressing the tank to 5lbs over the comperssed value of the shock, then cycled through the uncrompressed shock for return to tank.


Thoughts?

Aaron

"active yaw control"   Volvo did it, not sure they marketed it. Actuators that opened a valve to pressurize the outside shocks. I saw a vid on it once. Looked like it worked, but may have been too costly to produce.

[Headrope]

Yaw control on an ATV via actuators and air pressure adjustments would seem to be a self perpetuating problem: You'd be able to remain "flatter" around the turn and increase forward speed only as long as you had psi to squirt through your actuator; once you maxed that out you'd be back to where you started but now having a tire lift around the turn while going faster further complicated by the additional momentum creating a traction issue due to centrifical force.

Instead of trying to defeat physics I would suggest looking for a way to use it to your advantage. Think mechanical instead of electric - things that would not require mounting a laptop computer to your quad.

My theoretical Big 3:

* You're trying to keep the wheels down, right? You need additional downforce. Giving the quad wings would take care of that  (think: sprint cars/World of Outlaws).
* You might also look into brake proportioning valves. I'd wager slowing down the rotation of the wheels on the outside of the turn would help solve your problem.
* Look for a way to lower the ride height of the quad that will be on the inside of the turn. Doing so would covert the lateral yaw into downforce on the outside tires.

Good luck.





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[ThisGuyAlex]

as far as easy to get cheap yaw sensors...older cadillac's use a hall effect sensor with an adjustable turnbuckle....the hard part would be the computer to process the data and run the system

[Headrope]

I ran across an old Eazy-E casette (yes, I'm old enough to own those) and had a thought: You don't need sensors and a computer; you just need switchez.

Install hydraulics and you can lower the quad/lean into each turn.

Just a thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DM-4r6o9uQ&feature=related

[RR34]

ive seen a flat track set-up banshee with those big wing things on it. he hauled ass.




my ? is with the +2 a-arms designed for stock shocks do your shocks still perform the same, i would assume those a-arms utilize the same mounting point, they are just longer? id really like to widen my quad out but i cant afford a LT setup.

[kyledvor61]

ive seen a flat track set-up banshee with those big wing things on it. he hauled ass.




my ? is with the +2 a-arms designed for stock shocks do your shocks still perform the same, i would assume those a-arms utilize the same mounting point, they are just longer? id really like to widen my quad out but i cant afford a LT setup.

save up for the long travel, it will be worth it