Off Topic Bullsh*t Thread Volume XXIV

[preddy08]

Ok, I read half this gun discussion on the shitter at work today and wanted to chime in. Excuse me if I'm restating some things from earlier.

I grew up in "hick" town Nebraska where everyone hunts and owns guns. Its just the way of life around here. Somehow I've managed to establish my own views. I know how to handle them, I've shot in matches, I've been hunting, hell, my uncle owns a gun shop in central Nebraska. I see absolutely no reason to own a military style large capacity rifle. Sure you can hunt with them and you can take them to the range, but by and large they were made to kill humans. It amazes me how easy it is to get this style of weapon. We need to do SOMETHING to make it more difficult to buy. I laugh at people that say you can use a AR for hunting. Who in their right mind would take a AR out hunting deer. Only other thing AR's and AK's are good for is taking them out into a field and wasting 50 bucks in ammo. BTW, I've shot tons of high dollar assault riffles. Its boring they all go boom and send lead down range. I just don't get it.

I have a slight problem with people with their CCW permits. Most of my friends have their CCW's and I don't under stand why. Why do you need to take a gun to date night with your wife? WTF are the chances you'll actually need it. If you really need it, chances are its just going to make the situation worse. Are you really going to shoot a person that's robbing a 711? Sure that person is a total POS, but is a human life worth a few hundred bucks. Chances are that guy has a wife, children, mom..... Why not let the person get the money he so needs. I feel in a life time of carrying a gun with you its going to get you into more trouble than what its worth. Just look at police officers. They have extensive training on when to use deadly force and frequently get it wrong. What makes you think all these yahoos and their CCW's are going to do in a high pressure situation?

My inlaws hate that I don't have a pistol in the household. "what are you going to do if someone breaks into your house" I'll tell that person to take all my shit and leave.....hell I'll help him carry it out the door. Chances are I wont be able to get to my pistol before the confrontation. I did the research years ago and when a gun is brandished during a home invasion the out come isn't pretty (I forget the actual stats). I will never have a gun by my bed side. I'm not that person, and its just not safe.
When people ask me WHAT IF someone holds you at gun point and rapes your wife. I always try to play the "what are the chances" argument. How often does this happen? I don't want to run my life that way. Always holding a gun JUST IN CASE.

I wear a seat belt because its easy and the odds are greater I'll be in a accident. If you go to the casino and you know the odd are you're going to win 10 grand on betting 7, what are you going to do?

[Mad Dog]

gun violence=shooting in anger or on accident, not self defense.

that seems like Just Violence to me..
I don't see where the gun deserves the negative connotation

again.. if someone kills or wounds with a knife, why is it not "knife violence"?

It is knife violence.  Take a look at this graph and guess why you hear about "gun violence" more than "knife violence".



In 2012 for every homicide carried out with a knife or sharp object there were 5 homicides carried out with a firearm.

I use 2012 because that seems to be the most recent year with good data available on the web, not because it was especially bad.  In fact, according to some sources 2012 is still the lowest gun homicide rate since the early 1980's.  I only included homicide because quite frankly the numbers for "violent crime" in general are larger than I wish to work with and the suicide rates are absolutely through the roof.

Sources (among many): http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/sep/17/gun-crime-statistics-by-us-state
http://cdn.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/2012/12/FirearmFacts.png

Since JFK was assassinated in 1968 more people have died from gun related homicides in this country than the total number of US military casualties in every war since and including the Revolutionary War.  We as citizens are killing each other with guns at better than twice the rate that foreign aggressors can manage.  While I don't necessarily think that means we shouldn't be permitted to own guns at all I do believe that fact is indicative of a problem in our culture and the way we handle them. 

Source: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jan/18/mark-shields/pbs-commentator-mark-shields-says-more-killed-guns/

[funyun]

Would wieners be under the blunt object category

[Krandall]

Naw, they only destroy.

[Peelz]

Would wieners be under the blunt object category

mine is sharp like an exact-o  cut glass with that bitch

and well said preddy.

[Peelz]

gun violence=shooting in anger or on accident, not self defense.

that seems like Just Violence to me..
I don't see where the gun deserves the negative connotation

again.. if someone kills or wounds with a knife, why is it not "knife violence"?

murder is murder.  lol. People will kill each other with or without guns. forever. But a 9mm handgun will kill someone just as easy if not easier than an automatic machine gun. I dont want to take guns away, just draw the line, and define the laws.

to assume they are NOT weapons is silly. they are made to kill. end of story. That is why they are cool, and have power over people.

Seriously when I pick up my rifle(tiny one even), I feel like a bad ass, because its awesome, goes bang, and can kill many things-I admit that...... probably not consciously, but in my left brain, this is happening. happens to everyone. happens to me on motorcycles especially, you revert to animal brain.  "the right hand corrupts"


now, someone who may have grown up around guns and handled them their whole life like toys, may or may not get that. It is natural for them. I did not. And therefore I do not see that owning an automatic weapon was EVER part of the forefathers of our countries' intention of the 2nd amendment. The intention is: if you need it to be safe, and/or feed yourself, you may keep it. Not, if you need to waste 5000 bullets this weekend pretending the government is attacking you it should be your right. just doesnt compute for me. the line needs to be drawn.

Unfortunately, those people refuse to see it this way, because if you even remotely mention that an amendment is flawed, you are unamerican, and they shut down. Immediately assuming you are a gun stealing liberal whack job.

Conversely, When I open the knife drawer, i'm thinking, jeez I wanna cut my steak, or spread peanut butter on my super sweet PBJ sammich. I rarely feel like a badass.

Some people, a rare few, DO grab ahold of a knife and flip out and go caveman. remember OJ?

but I guarantee, if those people had a gun, theyd use it first

[Krandall]

Some people, a rare few, DO grab ahold of a knife and flip out and go caveman. remember OJ?

THE GLOVE DIDNT FIT DAMMIT!!!!!

Depending on what kind of knife... I feel like  badass at times.

[Mad Dog]

Would wieners be under the blunt object category

My sources indicate that yes, death by penile bludgeoning would be categorized as a "blunt object" homicide.

[Peelz]

Some people, a rare few, DO grab ahold of a knife and flip out and go caveman. remember OJ?

THE GLOVE DIDNT FIT DAMMIT!!!!!

Depending on what kind of knife... I feel like  badass at times.

this is True...I have a powdercoated black one thats about 9" long and cuts through fish like buttah. Makes me wanna wear a headband and sew my own wounds closed. 

and...

Would wieners be under the blunt object category

My sources indicate that yes, death by penile bludgeoning would be categorized as a "blunt object" homicide.

ah yes....Raptorsource Rally Homicide. thats  how I wanna go out!

[Hefe]

excellent post MD..

well written and as usual well thought out..

the problem with *most people when discussing this topic, they would assume that if there were NO guns at all, then those homicides would have never happened.
and that could be partially true, specifically those that were "heat of the moment" type murders.
or maybe some of those that were successful kills, would have been injuries instead.
but.. those murderers would have still committed the (a) crime

but the way I see it..
you can't blame the hammer for a bad contractor.. or the wrench for a bad mechanic ..it's just the tool you chose..
the responsibility lies in the individual, not his tool of choice.

and Preddy..
it is sad to me that you don't enjoy shooting..
it is one of my favorite things to do..
not because I feel powerful, or "like a bad ass" as Peels said.. but just because it's a great form of competition between me and my brother (or friends)
doesn't matter if we shoot targets, or skeet/trap.. whatever.. puts a smile on my face.
I'm really not into hunting anymore..
not sure why, but it's just not something that turns my crank
I DID just kill a damn woodchuck that was tearing up my yard though (pellet rifle)

I have NEVER picked up a gun and thought "I have more power now".. that is just juvenile and stupid.

I totally respect that you don't want any firearms in your house, and that doesn't offend/bother/disturb me in any way
you are still one of my peeps.. not sure why your in-laws take it so personally.
I feel VERY confident that if someone breaks in your house and rapes your wife, you WILL defend her to the best of your abilities.. you're a big guy.. that poor fucker will have his hands full! ball bat.. chair.. crowbar... something will happen to that shitbag.
your in-laws need to simma down

I don't see any logic in restricting someone to ownership of any type of gun, based on the Gun's merits.. based on the PERSON... HELL YEA!
if someone wants a Barrett 50Cal.. by all means! (can I shoot it plz?)
Gatling gun... go for it!
there are way more people trusted with way more deadly weapons every day.. like Semi-trucks, aircraft, hell... even cars.
every truck driver in the world has the potential to kill you EVERYTIME you get near them.. swerve.. thud.. dead
and his chances of survival are fairly high. but.. we trust them literally with our lives and trust that they will obey the law, not speed, or drive too tired.. drunk.. high.. etc

I think some of this discussion might be based on ignorance..
example..
In Michigan anyway..
someone breaks into your house to steal your TV, you can't just shoot them..
or at least you are gonna have a ton of legal battles ahead of you..
your life or that of your loved ones has be in danger (rape counts too)
if the guy says "ima seal this TV.. don't move".. seems to me your not in much danger
just a TV.. not worth someone's life

if someone is robbing the 7-11, and you are not in danger you can-not legally shoot them.. that's called murder, and that is not legal.
you HAVE to be in danger
if the bad guy shoots the clerk (or another patron), then you are in reasonable danger... fire away!
(of course a good lawyer will have many ways to twist every situation)

my views all boil down to this..
it is the individuals responsibility not to break the law.. EVERY LAW

it really has little to matter to me what tool he chose to use
in fact.. if someone is shooting at me, I would MUCH rather they use a AR15 than a shotgun!
Shotguns are some scary shit!

[Hefe]

wow.. here is something I didn't forsee..

look at your respective state's murders..
HUGE difference

with Saginaw, Detroit and worst of all Flint being in Michigan, you might be able to understand why Michigan residents are so concerned with their safety
keep in mind, I am 10 miles from Saginaw, and 30 from Flint (Phucker lives very close to Flint)
about 50 from Detroit as the crow flies

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/20tabledatadecpdf

according to this chart, we have almost as many killed by hands/feet as Nebraska has total murders (Iowa too)
MN is slightly more violent than IA and NE, but still quite mild
Ohio, has a bit of a bigger problem, but still not near MI caliber

what this (incredibly off the topic) discussion might boil down to is location, location, location

holy shit.. look at CA..
good thing Guns are banned there

[Geo]

[Peelz]

look at California!

good thing Guns are banned there

YEAH!

[funyun]

wow.. here is something I didn't forsee..

look at your respective state's murders..
HUGE difference

with Saginaw, Detroit and worst of all Flint being in Michigan, you might be able to understand why Michigan residents are so concerned with their safety
keep in mind, I am 10 miles from Saginaw, and 30 from Flint (Phucker lives very close to Flint)
about 50 from Detroit as the crow flies

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/20tabledatadecpdf

according to this chart, we have almost as many killed by hands/feet as Nebraska has total murders (Iowa too)
MN is slightly more violent than IA and NE, but still quite mild
Ohio, has a bit of a bigger problem, but still not near MI caliber

what this (incredibly off the topic) discussion might boil down to is location, location, location

holy shit.. look at CA..
good thing Guns are banned there

Are you saying to look at CA beause it has 4x the population of MI but by the chart only a little over 2x the firearm murders 

[preddy08]

On my phone and I'll keep this short. I have a friend of a friend that lives in Europe(where guns are banned). She wanted to come visit the states, but was legitimatly scared of all the gun nuts in the US.

I think we all can agree, stereotypes exist for a reason. Its just shitty that the US is getting pegged with this violent gun toteing immage.