the only reason the these dmc pipes are decent is because they copied off the barkers.. FERK dmc they wouldn't ever get a dime of my money..
Quote from: downfour on August 19, 2008, 07:42:26 PM
the only reason the these dmc pipes are decent is because they copied off the barkers.. F :mad: ck dmc they wouldn't ever get a dime of my money..
You have no proof of that ::)
Actually i think we do.
If Tim says they do then I'll buy that. He's aces in my book.
In January dmc calls on a couple of my dealers and asks them if they will design them a system like ours and also tells a few others that i am going out of business. Then they have the megaphone part of the system made by the same company that supplies us. They also offer different size reverse cones for tuning the exhaust JUST like I do. If you change the exhaust cans they look just like Mine. {BUT THAT IS NOT A COPY} Maybe they should come up with their own idea and still make a good pipe that might get them a lot more respect.
Quote from: tbarker on August 20, 2008, 02:36:48 PM
In January dmc calls on a couple of my dealers and asks them if they will design them a system like ours and also tells a few others that i am going out of business. Then they have the megaphone part of the system made by the same company that supplies us. They also offer different size reverse cones for tuning the exhaust JUST like I do. If you change the exhaust cans they look just like Mine. {BUT THAT IS NOT A COPY} Maybe they should come up with their own idea and still make a good pipe that might get them a lot more respect.
that blows man
Quote from: tbarker on August 20, 2008, 02:36:48 PM
In January dmc calls on a couple of my dealers and asks them if they will design them a system like ours and also tells a few others that i am going out of business. Then they have the megaphone part of the system made by the same company that supplies us. They also offer different size reverse cones for tuning the exhaust JUST like I do. If you change the exhaust cans they look just like Mine. {BUT THAT IS NOT A COPY} Maybe they should come up with their own idea and still make a good pipe that might get them a lot more respect.
thanks tim.. this dmc shit pisses me off..
Quote from: tbarker on August 20, 2008, 02:36:48 PM
In January dmc calls on a couple of my dealers and asks them if they will design them a system like ours and also tells a few others that i am going out of business. Then they have the megaphone part of the system made by the same company that supplies us. They also offer different size reverse cones for tuning the exhaust JUST like I do. If you change the exhaust cans they look just like Mine. {BUT THAT IS NOT A COPY} Maybe they should come up with their own idea and still make a good pipe that might get them a lot more respect.
Sorry but that sounds like a lot of hearsay and slander to me... Even if they did want to make a pipe "like" yours then that is not copying. That is the nature of competition... One company will come out with a kick butt 450 quad, then another rival company will come out with one "like" it, only they will try to make some improvements. If they seriously infringed on any copyrights then get a lawyer and deal with it like business men. If not, then just focus on one upping them like every other company rival. From what I hear you are already working on a better pipe. All this seems very unprofessional to me.
Quote from: downfour on August 19, 2008, 07:42:26 PM
the only reason the these dmc pipes are decent is because they copied off the barkers.. F :mad: ck dmc they wouldn't ever get a dime of my money..
I'm glad someone finally said it.......I have been biting my tongue out of respect for sponsors who will be selling these.
Pile......you need to drop that line of garbage to Tim.
I know that DMC purchased a set of Barker pipes from a well know sponsor and copied them....that's all I have to say about that.
Just remember, it ain't slander if it's the truth......
Quote from: Pile0g00 on August 20, 2008, 03:26:57 PM
Quote from: tbarker on August 20, 2008, 02:36:48 PM
In January dmc calls on a couple of my dealers and asks them if they will design them a system like ours and also tells a few others that i am going out of business. Then they have the megaphone part of the system made by the same company that supplies us. They also offer different size reverse cones for tuning the exhaust JUST like I do. If you change the exhaust cans they look just like Mine. {BUT THAT IS NOT A COPY} Maybe they should come up with their own idea and still make a good pipe that might get them a lot more respect.
Sorry but that sounds like a lot of hearsay and slander to me... Even if they did want to make a pipe "like" yours then that is not copying. That is the nature of competition... One company will come out with a kick butt 450 quad, then another rival company will come out with one "like" it, only they will try to make some improvements. If they seriously infringed on any copyrights then get a lawyer and deal with it like business men. If not, then just focus on one upping them like every other company rival. From what I hear you are already working on a better pipe. All this seems very unprofessional to me.
I agree with Pile. Yes it sucks that DMC is'nt savy enought to design there own pipes. Thats just the nature of the business. Do you really thing that companys dont look at one another for "ideas" for there own product.
Did DMC do something shitty and underhanded, yes. (if the hearsay is correct, not saying it is'nt)
Did they do something illegal, no.
This shit happens all the time.
This whole thread has been :mad: hijacked. The topic of if it is a ripped off design or not should be discussed elsewhere.
KBR was sent a set of pipes to dyno and he did that. He posted his findings here to help us make informed decisions.
We should give Kam a bit of respect instead of bashing on his thread.
Tim I am sorry if they ripped off your Pipe .
I saw the ones at KBR and thought the looked awfully familiar.
I own a set of yours and they are great, Except for the red label, Should have got black. ???
Quote from: air on August 20, 2008, 03:51:27 PM
This whole thread has been :mad: hijacked. The topic of if it is a ripped off design or not should be discussed elsewhere.
KBR was sent a set of pipes to dyno and he did that. He posted his findings here to help us make informed decisions.
We should give Kam a bit of respect instead of bashing on his thread.
Tim I am sorry if they ripped off your Pipe .
I saw the ones at KBR and thought the looked awfully familiar.
I own a set of yours and they are great, Except for the red label, Should have got black. ???
Subject has been split, to peserve Kams work :thumbs:
Thread orgin is here http://www.raptorsource.com/forum/index.php?topic=1486.0
Quote from: Colorado700R on August 20, 2008, 03:58:14 PM
Quote from: air on August 20, 2008, 03:51:27 PM
This whole thread has been :mad: hijacked. The topic of if it is a ripped off design or not should be discussed elsewhere.
KBR was sent a set of pipes to dyno and he did that. He posted his findings here to help us make informed decisions.
We should give Kam a bit of respect instead of bashing on his thread.
Tim I am sorry if they ripped off your Pipe .
I saw the ones at KBR and thought the looked awfully familiar.
I own a set of yours and they are great, Except for the red label, Should have got black. ???
Subject has been split, to peserve Kams work :thumbs:
Thread orgin is here http://www.raptorsource.com/forum/index.php?topic=1486.0
Thank you.
sorry for the jack.. but i think it should have been said.. no disrespect to the sponsors selling them.. i however wouldn't sell them.. its one thing to make a product close but to pretty much completely design the product from someone elses and change minor things is bullshit.. just my opinion..
It WAAYY sucks! It sucks for Tim, it sucks for Kam and all the dealers picking up the new product to have to deal with too. I was told early on that if I didn't want my stuff copied, don't build it. I guess the only thing I hope for is that us guys that actually have the talent to build our own parts stay far enough ahead of the curve to get the early money. I'll bet it will only be a matter of weeks before someone tries to release pistons and cams like mine..... I just know I have to keep moving to stay ahead. Customer loyalty goes a long way toward helping us. :thumbs:
Quote from: RaptorRandy on August 20, 2008, 03:30:42 PM
Pile......you need to drop that line of garbage to Tim.
I know that DMC purchased a set of Barker pipes from a well know sponsor and copied them....that's all I have to say about that.
Just remember, it ain't slander if it's the truth......
Where do you come off telling me what I "need" to do? People say you are a nice guy, but in person that kind of talk would not have gone over well. I had time to cool off since I first read it, but in person my blood would have been boiling.
Thanks for more hearsay though :clap: and again just because they purchased it does not mean they copied (asuming they did purchase it).
We all have our opinions, but don't come on and tell me what I need to do.
There is still no hard evidence that anything happened and I just see Tims involvement in this public discussion as unprofessional. Remember that is Just My Opinion.
Quote from: Pile0g00 on August 20, 2008, 05:00:25 PM
Quote from: RaptorRandy on August 20, 2008, 03:30:42 PM
Pile......you need to drop that line of garbage to Tim.
I know that DMC purchased a set of Barker pipes from a well know sponsor and copied them....that's all I have to say about that.
Just remember, it ain't slander if it's the truth......
Where do you come off telling me what I "need" to do? People say you are a nice guy, but in person that kind of talk would not have gone over well. I had time to cool off since I first read it, but in person my blood would have been boiling.
Thanks for more hearsay though :clap: and again just because they purchased it does not mean they copied (asuming they did purchase it).
We all have our opinions, but don't come on and tell me what I need to do.
There is still no hard evidence that anything happened and I just see Tims involvement in this public discussion as unprofessional. Remember that is Just My Opinion.
You know what dude......I am a nice guy to those who deserve it..... re read what you said to Tim and then maybe you'll begin to understand my responce to you. IMO, you totaly disrespected him and I call em like I see em.
As far as your in person comment , if you would have said in person what you said on here, I would have made the exact same reply.....and if it pissed you off oh well, I would have said if you feel froggy leap, their ain't a thing between us but air and oportunity ;)
You got any more problems you want to discuss, I suggest you take it to PM's.
There is nothing disrespectful about his post. Only the truth. Its the nature of business.
Quote from: preddy08 on August 20, 2008, 05:59:27 PM
There is nothing disrespectful about his post. Only the truth. Its the nature of business.
Accusing him of slander and the context in which it was posted was disrepectfull....that's my opinion and I have every right to it.
Quote from: Kenny on August 20, 2008, 04:51:47 PM
It WAAYY sucks! It sucks for Tim, it sucks for Kam and all the dealers picking up the new product to have to deal with too. I was told early on that if I didn't want my stuff copied, don't build it. I guess the only thing I hope for is that us guys that actually have the talent to build our own parts stay far enough ahead of the curve to get the early money. I'll bet it will only be a matter of weeks before someone tries to release pistons and cams like mine..... I just know I have to keep moving to stay ahead. Customer loyalty goes a long way toward helping us. :thumbs:
+1 Kenny
Unfortunate part today's buisness world :(
Examining your competition's stuff, and incorporating any information you can get from them is becoming more and more a part of buisness "R&D". Instead of investing in the science and engineering, they reverse engineer components and test them to incorporate in their own designs to save money on full on prototyping. They now prototype based on "lessons learned" from their testing of the competiotion.
Do I think DMC Purchased and examined Tim's pipes? Yes (Probably with a set of LTEs, and Monsters too). Do I believe they are the only ones? Nope, there has been and will be others. Do I like that? Not at all, becuase they are only continuing existing technology, not pushing the envelope like Tim and Kenny and other "little guys".
I may not be in the "performance industry", but I assure you similar practices are done within weapons design.
Aaron
I'll be the judge of personal attacks here and judge them accordingly. So far this is a disagreement about a product origin. Period.
If you have concerns about this topic, or any other please PM me.
Thanks,
Aaron
i'm not going to agree with anyone besides tim.. they copied them and everyone knows it.. and yes it is a shame that is what other companies do.. r&d your own stuff and move our sport to the next level like the tim and kenny have.. i have nothing but respect for these guys and will allways stay number one in my book..
and for the record
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh26/downfour/funny-rtyuteru.jpg)
Quote from: downfour on August 20, 2008, 06:27:51 PM
i'm not going to agree with anyone besides tim.. they copied them and everyone knows it.. and yes it is a shame that is what other companies do.. r&d your own stuff and move our sport to the next level like the tim and kenny have.. i have nothing but respect for these guys and will allways stay number one in my book..
and for the record
(http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh26/downfour/funny-rtyuteru.jpg)
How'd you get my picture fucker??? :nun:
:rofl:
i did some r&d of my own colorado.. :tmnt: :box:
Quote from: downfour on August 20, 2008, 06:34:41 PM
i did some r&d of my own colorado.. :tmnt: :box:
Well, Momma still calls me special and you can never take that away from me :P
Quote from: Colorado700R on August 20, 2008, 06:35:59 PM
Quote from: downfour on August 20, 2008, 06:34:41 PM
i did some r&d of my own colorado.. :tmnt: :box:
Well, Momma still calls me special and you can never take that away from me :P
she calls me special too.. just not in the same way as you
:lol:
back on topic, I cannot wait to see more info on the new DMC pipes (Hopefully in a LTE, Monster, Barker shootout). And Tim I'm really stoked to see what your new design will do for the bigger builds. :thumbs:
Aaron
A few years ago when I got my Raptor 660 I really did not mod anything. I shopped around but when it came down to it, sold it and upgrade to the Raptor 700. Then in the 700 world I noticed there were a lot of options for a single exhaust pipe and only 4 options for the dual exhaust option. I am not surprised with the Raptor 700 being so popular and a huge market for accessories that more things pop up and that certain ideas are reused. I am really surprised that there are not more options for dual exhaust yet. How about Two Brother Duals, Yoshimura Duals, or White Brother Duals. Who knows what is around the corner. I know Tim Barker has new duals coming and I bet they will be top notch! :thumbs:
IMHO
Posts deleted. Keep that crap in PM's.
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on August 21, 2008, 06:19:11 AM
Posts deleted. Keep that crap in PM's.
Good call :thumbs:
Grant
:hair: some people just can't handle others opinions.. take it for what it is and don't be a bitch about it..
Hey you guys....
I am a big Tim Barker guy.
I love his work and espicially his pipes.
DMC asked me to try one out.
It worked well.
Now, lets think about two things.
DMC has been making pipes for ages. I have been selling DMC pipes since it was the hot set to get a "alien" for your 400ex.
DMC did not whore up the market. They actually have a much higher suggested retail than Barkers.
That being said, thats nature of the beast, consider it a compliment, as it will happen agian and agian if you make good stuff!
Quote from: KBR on August 25, 2008, 02:23:05 PM
Hey you guys....
I am a big Tim Barker guy.
I love his work and espicially his pipes.
DMC asked me to try one out.
It worked well.
Now, lets think about two things.
DMC has been making pipes for ages. I have been selling DMC pipes since it was the hot set to get a "alien" for your 400ex.
DMC did not whore up the market. They actually have a much higher suggested retail than Barkers.
That being said, thats nature of the beast, consider it a compliment, as it will happen agian and agian if you make good stuff!
Well put :clap:
Just to set the record straight the old DMC duals weren't bad at all. It was all blown out of proportion. The DMC have awesome power all the way around. Anyone that says otherwise has read something different on the forums. I have mad respect for Tim and what he does for the sport bike / atv community. I'm not real sure what DMC does besides sell exhaust.
When it comes to choosing one over the other think about what company supports the forums and ask yourself what the other company does to get involved with the sport. Barker and DMC both have perks and cons its up to you as a rider to decide which one works best for you.
If you think the exhaust is unoriginal simply buy the other one.
Remember guys Dyne's are just tuning tools one may read 42HP and a couple hours later read 44hp. I honestly don't think its the best way to compare power mods. JMHO. I like reading ride reports the best.
In the past
HH Piston was released - shortly after the wicked- shortly after VR pistons.
UM Makes Nerfs off AC design back in 2004ish
Precision Stabilizers - Copied by many... Scott, Elka , etc
I think our industry is running out of ideas for new creative products.
Yet another well put point!