Well after reading this article I gotta say Im gonna think twice about using K&N air Filters
http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
Damn.. That is out right pointing @ the fact that the K&N sucks. :help:
Well, that sucks!
Quote from: Krandall on July 29, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
Damn.. That is out right pointing @ the fact that the K&N sucks. :help:
Thats why I dont run then on something that I wont be rebuilding every year.
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 09:59:35 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 29, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
Damn.. That is out right pointing @ the fact that the K&N sucks. :help:
Thats why I dont run then on something that I wont be rebuilding every year.
Hopefully, having the prefilter helps?
what do you run preddy?
Nevermind, checked your sig.
Quote from: Peels660 on July 29, 2008, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 09:59:35 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 29, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
Damn.. That is out right pointing @ the fact that the K&N sucks. :help:
Thats why I dont run then on something that I wont be rebuilding every year.
Hopefully, having the prefilter helps?
what do you run preddy?
A pre filter will help, but wont get it all.
I run a K&N with a pre filter, only because I will be tearing it down this winter for some more goodies. If I have a bike that I dont want to wrench on for years I would with out a doubt run a twin air.
I have done tear down on two predators both similar builds, one with K&N and one with twin air. both had pre filters too.
The K&N had a shit load of debris on the piston and the cylinder was in pretty bad shape. the twin air foam filter bike was noticeably cleaner and in better shape.
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:14:29 AM
Quote from: Peels660 on July 29, 2008, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 09:59:35 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 29, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
Damn.. That is out right pointing @ the fact that the K&N sucks. :help:
Thats why I dont run then on something that I wont be rebuilding every year.
Hopefully, having the prefilter helps?
what do you run preddy?
A pre filter will help, but wont get it all.
I run a K&N with a pre filter, only because I will be tearing it down this winter for some more goodies. If I have a bike that I dont want to wrench on for years I would with out a doubt run a twin air.
I have done tear down on two predators both similar builds, one with K&N and one with twin air. both had pre filters too.
The K&N had a shit load of debris on the piston and the cylinder was in pretty bad shape. the twin air foam filter bike was noticeably cleaner and in better shape.
$hit! Thanks for the info. I have never read anything bad about k&n before today. I will go twin next time I mod.
+1
Quote from: Peels660 on July 29, 2008, 10:23:05 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:14:29 AM
Quote from: Peels660 on July 29, 2008, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 09:59:35 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 29, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
Damn.. That is out right pointing @ the fact that the K&N sucks. :help:
Thats why I dont run then on something that I wont be rebuilding every year.
Hopefully, having the prefilter helps?
what do you run preddy?
A pre filter will help, but wont get it all.
I run a K&N with a pre filter, only because I will be tearing it down this winter for some more goodies. If I have a bike that I dont want to wrench on for years I would with out a doubt run a twin air.
I have done tear down on two predators both similar builds, one with K&N and one with twin air. both had pre filters too.
The K&N had a shit load of debris on the piston and the cylinder was in pretty bad shape. the twin air foam filter bike was noticeably cleaner and in better shape.
$hit! Thanks for the info. I have never read anything bad about k&n before today. I will go twin next time I mod.
+1
Foam filters don't flow like K&N, but there is a reason for that. :thumbs:
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:25:06 AM
Quote from: Peels660 on July 29, 2008, 10:23:05 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 10:14:29 AM
Quote from: Peels660 on July 29, 2008, 10:08:52 AM
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 09:59:35 AM
Quote from: Krandall on July 29, 2008, 08:44:02 AM
Damn.. That is out right pointing @ the fact that the K&N sucks. :help:
Thats why I dont run then on something that I wont be rebuilding every year.
Hopefully, having the prefilter helps?
what do you run preddy?
A pre filter will help, but wont get it all.
I run a K&N with a pre filter, only because I will be tearing it down this winter for some more goodies. If I have a bike that I dont want to wrench on for years I would with out a doubt run a twin air.
I have done tear down on two predators both similar builds, one with K&N and one with twin air. both had pre filters too.
The K&N had a shit load of debris on the piston and the cylinder was in pretty bad shape. the twin air foam filter bike was noticeably cleaner and in better shape.
$hit! Thanks for the info. I have never read anything bad about k&n before today. I will go twin next time I mod.
+1
Foam filters don't flow like K&N, but there is a reason for that. :thumbs:
understood. Just need a good compromise between flow and filtering. Unless for drags, I assume, then go for the best air flow. :thumbs: I get pretty dirty when I ride, so better look into something new.
I say it's totally a toss up. Depends on the terrain your riding. if it's dusty, I switch out to my Uni, if it's rained recently and no dust, I run my K&N w/ prefilter. @ the dunes, I'll be running my K&N. :)
Last time I ran my Uni filter @ the dunes, :O SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUUUUUUUUUUCH SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND stuck in the foam.. :lol:
Quote from: Krandall on July 29, 2008, 10:52:55 AM
I say it's totally a toss up. Depends on the terrain your riding. if it's dusty, I switch out to my Uni, if it's rained recently and no dust, I run my K&N w/ prefilter. @ the dunes, I'll be running my K&N. :)
Last time I ran my Uni filter @ the dunes, :O SOOOOOOOOOOOO MUUUUUUUUUUCH SAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND stuck in the foam.. :lol:
same with the k&n. Sand everywhere-it was nasty. I think K&N is good for sand, it is the fine dust of the summer from dry dirt and gravel roads that is worrying me. :help:
Ive used K&N on my 660 and now my 700 with a prefilter. Everytime i clean it(which is after every ride) because of extremely dusty conditions, I use a white towel and wipe inside of the intake as far as i can reach. It has always come out clean. They may not be the best application on cars/trucks in dusty conditions as most don't use a prefilter on the street. Until i see some proof inside the intake of dust or dirt getting by ill continue to use one. Very good read though. :thumbs:
Quote from: Jamie700R on July 29, 2008, 11:18:43 AM
Ive used K&N on my 660 and now my 700 with a prefilter. Everytime i clean it(which is after every ride) because of extremely dusty conditions, I use a white towel and wipe inside of the intake as far as i can reach. It has always come out clean. They may not be the best application on cars/trucks in dusty conditions as most don't use a prefilter on the street. Until i see some proof inside the intake of dust or dirt getting by ill continue to use one. Very good read though. :thumbs:
I'll do that the next time I clean it. Come to think of it. Mine did not look exceptionally dirty.
I also run with a EHS airbox lid. I ran without a lid a few times and my airbox was coated in dust and dirt but my intake was still spotless.
Quote from: Jamie700R on July 29, 2008, 11:18:43 AM
Ive used K&N on my 660 and now my 700 with a prefilter. Everytime i clean it(which is after every ride) because of extremely dusty conditions, I use a white towel and wipe inside of the intake as far as i can reach. It has always come out clean. They may not be the best application on cars/trucks in dusty conditions as most don't use a prefilter on the street. Until i see some proof inside the intake of dust or dirt getting by ill continue to use one. Very good read though. :thumbs:
I did the same thing after a long weekend riding out in ocotillo wells.....rag was clean.
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Jamie700R on July 29, 2008, 11:18:43 AM
Ive used K&N on my 660 and now my 700 with a prefilter. Everytime i clean it(which is after every ride) because of extremely dusty conditions, I use a white towel and wipe inside of the intake as far as i can reach. It has always come out clean. They may not be the best application on cars/trucks in dusty conditions as most don't use a prefilter on the street. Until i see some proof inside the intake of dust or dirt getting by ill continue to use one. Very good read though. :thumbs:
I did the same thing after a long weekend riding out in ocotillo wells.....rag was clean.
Youll be suprised at the amount of grit on the piston. Just because the intake run is clean does'nt mean nothing got past.
Next time out put a thin coat of filter oil on the inside of the intake tube.
I clean mine when we get back from racing then I will spray it before we go racing that way the filter oil is fresh and not dry.
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Jamie700R on July 29, 2008, 11:18:43 AM
Ive used K&N on my 660 and now my 700 with a prefilter. Everytime i clean it(which is after every ride) because of extremely dusty conditions, I use a white towel and wipe inside of the intake as far as i can reach. It has always come out clean. They may not be the best application on cars/trucks in dusty conditions as most don't use a prefilter on the street. Until i see some proof inside the intake of dust or dirt getting by ill continue to use one. Very good read though. :thumbs:
I did the same thing after a long weekend riding out in ocotillo wells.....rag was clean.
Youll be suprised at the amount of grit on the piston. Just because the intake run is clean does'nt mean nothing got past.
Next time out put a thin coat of filter oil on the inside of the intake tube.
I'll try that. But I don't ride in as much dust as ocotillo wells anymore. :(
Quote from: preddy08 on July 29, 2008, 11:55:16 AM
Quote from: Socalrappy700 on July 29, 2008, 11:39:13 AM
Quote from: Jamie700R on July 29, 2008, 11:18:43 AM
Ive used K&N on my 660 and now my 700 with a prefilter. Everytime i clean it(which is after every ride) because of extremely dusty conditions, I use a white towel and wipe inside of the intake as far as i can reach. It has always come out clean. They may not be the best application on cars/trucks in dusty conditions as most don't use a prefilter on the street. Until i see some proof inside the intake of dust or dirt getting by ill continue to use one. Very good read though. :thumbs:
I did the same thing after a long weekend riding out in ocotillo wells.....rag was clean.
Youll be suprised at the amount of grit on the piston. Just because the intake run is clean does'nt mean nothing got past.
Next time out put a thin coat of filter oil on the inside of the intake tube.
I know when I tore my rappy apart last fall, there was dirt inside the intake from the foam filter too.. I think a filter is only as good as the person taking care of it. :)
Quote
I know when I tore my rappy apart last fall, there was dirt inside the intake from the foam filter too.. I think a filter is only as good as the person taking care of it. :)
Now there is a comment I can agree with
id say foam filters for dusty conditions and k&n for non dusty conditions (like mine :clap:)
my opinion is k&n is a safe filter for one thing and one thing only street cars and trucks or racing anything on pavement
Quote from: thatguy on July 29, 2008, 03:43:58 PM
my opinion is k&n is a safe filter for one thing and one thing only street cars and trucks or racing anything on pavement
ummm arent you listing a K&N in your sig???
Quote from: 1raptor on July 29, 2008, 04:40:41 PM
Quote from: thatguy on July 29, 2008, 03:43:58 PM
my opinion is k&n is a safe filter for one thing and one thing only street cars and trucks or racing anything on pavement
ummm arent you listing a K&N in your sig???
You know the old saying, "Do as I say, not as I do" LOLOLOLOLOL
Quote from: 1raptor on July 29, 2008, 04:40:41 PM
Quote from: thatguy on July 29, 2008, 03:43:58 PM
my opinion is k&n is a safe filter for one thing and one thing only street cars and trucks or racing anything on pavement
ummm arent you listing a K&N in your sig???
ya and i hate running it but guess what when your 16 and cant get a job and pay for your own shit somehow you gotta go with what ya got....ya dig what i say? :)
Quote from: thatguy on July 30, 2008, 10:33:46 PM
Quote from: 1raptor on July 29, 2008, 04:40:41 PM
Quote from: thatguy on July 29, 2008, 03:43:58 PM
my opinion is k&n is a safe filter for one thing and one thing only street cars and trucks or racing anything on pavement
ummm arent you listing a K&N in your sig???
ya and i hate running it but guess what when your 16 and cant get a job and pay for your own shit somehow you gotta go with what ya got....ya dig what i say? :)
a uni filter is like $50 :confused:
Just add that to the cost of a rebuild :lol:
There is a pretty simple rule to follow. A filter that flows more passes more dirt. After doing about 220 TB's now, I can always tell who over cleans their filter(long term)..... The TB will have oily residue, and the throttle shaft will be worn from the excess oil causing grit to cling to moving parts. The best thing you can do is let the K&N stay a little dirty since the dirt will start to act as a filter medium. I worked on dirt track cars for years and have nothing good to say about foam, except we found that it works best on a parts shelf rather than on a car. The best filter medium by far is synthetic, whether it be for air or oil. It is far superior in flow restriction vs dirt passed. I just don't have time to seek the proper ones out for this application until I get some of my other projects finished. The only reasonable option is using the K&N, and not over cleaning it. The dirty filter actually allows less dirt to pass, and has a better flow vs dirt passed ratio than foam. I guess I am telling you guys to stop servicing your ATV to death :thumbs:
Quote from: Kenny on August 01, 2008, 10:13:06 PM
There is a pretty simple rule to follow. A filter that flows more passes more dirt. After doing about 220 TB's now, I can always tell who over cleans their filter(long term)..... The TB will have oily residue, and the throttle shaft will be worn from the excess oil causing grit to cling to moving parts. The best thing you can do is let the K&N stay a little dirty since the dirt will start to act as a filter medium. I worked on dirt track cars for years and have nothing good to say about foam, except we found that it works best on a parts shelf rather than on a car. The best filter medium by far is synthetic, whether it be for air or oil. It is far superior in flow restriction vs dirt passed. I just don't have time to seek the proper ones out for this application until I get some of my other projects finished. The only reasonable option is using the K&N, and not over cleaning it. The dirty filter actually allows less dirt to pass, and has a better flow vs dirt passed ratio than foam. I guess I am telling you guys to stop servicing your ATV to death :thumbs:
Makes sense. I'm good to go, mine is always dirty as $hit! :rofl: Karma pour vous.
I think it even says that in the instructions. ( not to clean it so often)
I use the K&N filter in desert, where fine sand, dust storms, and sand storms are normal.(if yoall seen dessert storm operation)
I have never seen any dust, sand, or anything else in the intake tube or engine. I service the filter every 2-3 months using Maxima synth. filter oil
this oil is great and will help tract all dust, not allowing it to pass the filter.
so are we worried that K&N sucks at getting all the dirt or are we worried that K&N doesn't flow as good as they have always said they have.
because if you oil your airfilters there is no way any dirt is getting through them. that's what stops the small peices of dirt anyway. and K&N don't do shit for power unless you have other stuff done. like exhaust or other mods.
so i'm confused as to what we are worried about now?
Quote from: warren on August 11, 2008, 02:56:29 PM
so are we worried that K&N sucks at getting all the dirt or are we worried that K&N doesn't flow as good as they have always said they have.
because if you oil your airfilters there is no way any dirt is getting through them. that's what stops the small peices of dirt anyway. and K&N don't do shit for power unless you have other stuff done. like exhaust or other mods.
so i'm confused as to what we are worried about now?
k&n flows good, doesn't clean as well. I agree, just need to keep that sucker oiled.
More great information about K&N.
http://www.raptorforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43209
I did a little test this weeken, and we shall see how it turns out tonight. I cleaned my filter and outerware the night before our ride this weekend. While I was at it I put a light coating of WD-40 on the first 6" of the intake tube.
I'm taking bets on what the tube looks like.
Are you betting that it will be full of crap or do you think it will be clean? I think it will be as clean as any other k&n type setup.
Quote from: troywcc on August 18, 2008, 08:47:23 AM
Are you betting that it will be full of crap or do you think it will be clean? I think it will be as clean as any other k&n type setup.
I'll bet it will be as clean as everyother K&N out there :rolleyes:.............(being sarcastic) ??? :rolleyes:
Are we suppose to assume that a pleated paper is better than a gause cotton filter, goes against everything we've been told.
Quote from: warren on August 11, 2008, 02:56:29 PM
. and K&N don't do shit for power unless you have other stuff done. like exhaust or other mods.
im gonna have to disagree wit hthat. my rappy noticably changed power wise and power-curve wise with the k&n
Quote from: maxx on August 18, 2008, 09:03:33 AM
Are we suppose to assume that a pleated paper is better than a gause cotton filter, goes against everything we've been told.
Coming from the 7.3 liter diesel performance world I would 100% agree with that. They had a bad time with K&N filters "dusting" the turbos. When people started using paper filters such as what comes in the Sever Duty Filter kit that ford offers the turbos were in alot better shape. Those sever duty kits that ford offers is what the government ran in all there military vehicles in service in middle east. That right there would tell you about the filtering capibility of paper vs K&N.
So what are you trying to compare this to, paper, foam, other k&n type media or what?
Quote from: troywcc on August 18, 2008, 09:31:31 AM
So what are you trying to compare this to, paper, foam, other k&n type media or what?
I'm not really compairing it to anything. All I'm saying is that I like foam filters on motors I dont want to tear down every winter.
Maxx asked about the legitimacy of the test and I gave him my thoughts on the subject.
Its a fact that K&Ns let more than an acceptable amount of debris through.
I have done back to back tear downs on predators with the same intake, one with clamp on twin air and clamp on K&N filters. Both with outerwares. Ridden about the same amount of time, same areas, same oil, same everything.
The cylinder walls on the K&N were in worse shape than the twin air. The debris on the piston was more prevalent on the K&N.
Those are my findings, so take it for what its worth.
Could be worth alot.
:thumbs:
It's like everything else in life. You have to strike a balance that works for you. I want max power, so I go with K&N. If you do the same oiled intake tube test but leave the same dirty filter, the tube will be cleaner. Paper is the best for dry conditions if it's not too restrictive and gets replaced very regular. Again, this assumes that you aren't throwing synthetic filter media into the mix. I don't know about the military stuff because I have only seen the Donaldson (synthetic)filters going overseas. ???
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 08:07:12 AM
More great information about K&N.
http://www.raptorforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43209
I did a little test this weeken, and we shall see how it turns out tonight. I cleaned my filter and outerware the night before our ride this weekend. While I was at it I put a light coating of WD-40 on the first 6" of the intake tube.
I'm taking bets on what the tube looks like.
That was one nasty tube! :mad:
Quote from: Kenny on August 18, 2008, 04:12:08 PM
I don't know about the military stuff because I have only seen the Donaldson (synthetic)filters going overseas. ???
This is the kit I was talking about. "Used in Operation IRAQI FREEDOM!"
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/99503-73l-ford-powerstroke-severe-duty-air-intake-ais-p-75.html
So... I run a K&N filter on my truck am I safe? I had one in my old truck one of the round ones on top of the motor for years and only cleaned it a handfull of times. You guys got me shitin my self. Cuz I got one on my new truck.
Quote from: blueyamaha on August 18, 2008, 07:46:55 PM
So... I run a K&N filter on my truck am I safe? I had one in my old truck one of the round ones on top of the motor for years and only cleaned it a handfull of times. You guys got me shitin my self. Cuz I got one on my new truck.
Unless your truck goes where your quad goes then I would'nt worry about it. K&N's are fine for street use.
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 07:55:55 PM
Quote from: blueyamaha on August 18, 2008, 07:46:55 PM
So... I run a K&N filter on my truck am I safe? I had one in my old truck one of the round ones on top of the motor for years and only cleaned it a handfull of times. You guys got me shitin my self. Cuz I got one on my new truck.
Phew I was shitin bricks thanks man. Ha not this truck but the last truck did!
Unless your truck goes where your quad goes then I would'nt worry about it. K&N's are fine for street use.
just did my own test with my K&N, I'm done with it :mad:
Aaron
Quote from: Colorado700R on August 18, 2008, 08:30:06 PM
just did my own test with my K&N, I'm done with it :mad:
Aaron
Ill tell you that my intake tract was'nt clean after this weekends ride.
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: Colorado700R on August 18, 2008, 08:30:06 PM
just did my own test with my K&N, I'm done with it :mad:
Aaron
Ill tell you that my intake tract was'nt clean after this weekends ride.
WTF good is a filter that doesn't keep out fine particles. K&N needs a big-ass warning label that states "For low dust, or sand applications only"
:mad:
Quote from: Colorado700R on August 18, 2008, 08:49:45 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 08:43:51 PM
Quote from: Colorado700R on August 18, 2008, 08:30:06 PM
just did my own test with my K&N, I'm done with it :mad:
Aaron
Ill tell you that my intake tract was'nt clean after this weekends ride.
WTF good is a filter that doesn't keep out fine particles. K&N needs a big-ass warning label that states "For low dust, or sand applications only"
:mad:
LOL, you guys will slowly learn that I'm not full of shit 100% of the time....LOL
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: maxx on August 18, 2008, 09:03:33 AM
Are we suppose to assume that a pleated paper is better than a gause cotton filter, goes against everything we've been told.
Coming from the 7.3 liter diesel performance world I would 100% agree with that. They had a bad time with K&N filters "dusting" the turbos. When people started using paper filters such as what comes in the Sever Duty Filter kit that ford offers the turbos were in alot better shape. Those sever duty kits that ford offers is what the government ran in all there military vehicles in service in middle east. That right there would tell you about the filtering capibility of paper vs K&N.
I agree and disagree with the statement above:
K&N filters are horible for 2 reasons in a turbo diesel application.
1 they are only 96% efficient to 1 micron
2 A diesel engine of say 360 cu.in. uses approcimatly 1400 CFM of air every crank revolution
Donaldson filters, also refered as the ford severe duty filters are wonderful at trapping dirt. The are horrible at airflow. They have a triangular shaped "air passages"in them and air goes into one then has to change dirrection to go into another. This is the reason they are so effiecient at trapping dirt. It really has nothing to do with filter media. Donaldson filters are not very good on an engine either due to very high EGT's that they contribute to. You can take a bone stock truck, install a pyro and change nothing else but te airfilter to a Donaldson and see a 2-300 degree increase in EGT. This is also very hard on the turbo and pistons/rings.
Probably the best filter application that is a good comprimise for a TD app. is and AFE in the synthetic dryflow filter line. They filter just over 99% down to one micron and still have very good airflow numbers.
Airfilter technology is a comprimise between air flow and filtration. It always has been and it always will be. I do also agree that an overcleaned filter is worthless as is one that is not completely dry before re-oiling
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: maxx on August 18, 2008, 09:03:33 AM
Are we suppose to assume that a pleated paper is better than a gause cotton filter, goes against everything we've been told.
Coming from the 7.3 liter diesel performance world I would 100% agree with that. They had a bad time with K&N filters "dusting" the turbos. When people started using paper filters such as what comes in the Sever Duty Filter kit that ford offers the turbos were in alot better shape. Those sever duty kits that ford offers is what the government ran in all there military vehicles in service in middle east. That right there would tell you about the filtering capibility of paper vs K&N.
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 06:07:12 PM
Quote from: Kenny on August 18, 2008, 04:12:08 PM
I don't know about the military stuff because I have only seen the Donaldson (synthetic)filters going overseas. ???
This is the kit I was talking about. "Used in Operation IRAQI FREEDOM!"
http://www.puredieselpower.com/catalog/99503-73l-ford-powerstroke-severe-duty-air-intake-ais-p-75.html
I thought by your earlier post that you were saying the military filters were paper......... ???
do you think the Pro-tec lid would have enough of an effect that I could still run the K&N?
Screw this air filter shit, I'm gonna install a 9' tall snorkel and not run a filter :)
Quote from: 1FST690 on August 18, 2008, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: maxx on August 18, 2008, 09:03:33 AM
Are we suppose to assume that a pleated paper is better than a gause cotton filter, goes against everything we've been told.
Coming from the 7.3 liter diesel performance world I would 100% agree with that. They had a bad time with K&N filters "dusting" the turbos. When people started using paper filters such as what comes in the Sever Duty Filter kit that ford offers the turbos were in alot better shape. Those sever duty kits that ford offers is what the government ran in all there military vehicles in service in middle east. That right there would tell you about the filtering capibility of paper vs K&N.
I agree and disagree with the statement above:
K&N filters are horible for 2 reasons in a turbo diesel application.
1 they are only 96% efficient to 1 micron
2 A diesel engine of say 360 cu.in. uses approcimatly 1400 CFM of air every crank revolution
Donaldson filters, also refered as the ford severe duty filters are wonderful at trapping dirt. The are horrible at airflow. They have a triangular shaped "air passages"in them and air goes into one then has to change dirrection to go into another. This is the reason they are so effiecient at trapping dirt. It really has nothing to do with filter media. Donaldson filters are not very good on an engine either due to very high EGT's that they contribute to. You can take a bone stock truck, install a pyro and change nothing else but te airfilter to a Donaldson and see a 2-300 degree increase in EGT. This is also very hard on the turbo and pistons/rings.
Probably the best filter application that is a good comprimise for a TD app. is and AFE in the synthetic dryflow filter line. They filter just over 99% down to one micron and still have very good airflow numbers.
Airfilter technology is a comprimise between air flow and filtration. It always has been and it always will be. I do also agree that an overcleaned filter is worthless as is one that is not completely dry before re-oiling
That is exactly right. It is pretty well proven that a higher flowing filter passes more dirt. The problem we have with foam filters on dirt track cars is that excess crap tends to fill the pores and won't "shake off" when overloaded. I only think of the outerware as a water repellent covering. It really does nothing to stop dirt particles that can pass through the K&N. The dryflow synthetic filters out there have very thin "nano" fibers that can be woven tight enough to stop reasonable sized particles, but the fibers are so fine the filter acts like one with larger surface area. I think the AFE dryflow material and the AEM intake material are also made by Donaldson :thumbs:
Quote from: 1FST690 on August 18, 2008, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: maxx on August 18, 2008, 09:03:33 AM
Are we suppose to assume that a pleated paper is better than a gause cotton filter, goes against everything we've been told.
Coming from the 7.3 liter diesel performance world I would 100% agree with that. They had a bad time with K&N filters "dusting" the turbos. When people started using paper filters such as what comes in the Sever Duty Filter kit that ford offers the turbos were in alot better shape. Those sever duty kits that ford offers is what the government ran in all there military vehicles in service in middle east. That right there would tell you about the filtering capibility of paper vs K&N.
I agree and disagree with the statement above:
K&N filters are horible for 2 reasons in a turbo diesel application.
1 they are only 96% efficient to 1 micron
2 A diesel engine of say 360 cu.in. uses approcimatly 1400 CFM of air every crank revolution
Donaldson filters, also refered as the ford severe duty filters are wonderful at trapping dirt. The are horrible at airflow. They have a triangular shaped "air passages"in them and air goes into one then has to change dirrection to go into another. This is the reason they are so effiecient at trapping dirt. It really has nothing to do with filter media. Donaldson filters are not very good on an engine either due to very high EGT's that they contribute to. You can take a bone stock truck, install a pyro and change nothing else but te airfilter to a Donaldson and see a 2-300 degree increase in EGT. This is also very hard on the turbo and pistons/rings.
Probably the best filter application that is a good comprimise for a TD app. is and AFE in the synthetic dryflow filter line. They filter just over 99% down to one micron and still have very good airflow numbers.
Airfilter technology is a comprimise between air flow and filtration. It always has been and it always will be. I do also agree that an overcleaned filter is worthless as is one that is not completely dry before re-oiling
Where did you get this information? The guys running the AIS intake on the 7.3 liter diesels saw a DROP in EGT's. The AIS intake is what the safer guys would run, that did'nt want to run a full on open intake.
Sorry Kenny, I thought that the AIS used a paper filter with a foam wrap.
Quote from: troywcc on August 18, 2008, 09:39:55 PM
Screw this air filter shit, I'm gonna install a 9' tall snorkel and not run a filter :)
You just gotta worry about sucking in birds :lol:
Quote from: Krandall on August 19, 2008, 10:31:37 AM
Quote from: troywcc on August 18, 2008, 09:39:55 PM
Screw this air filter shit, I'm gonna install a 9' tall snorkel and not run a filter :)
You just gotta worry about sucking in birds :lol:
:rofl: 9ft!!!!!
Quote from: Peels660 on August 19, 2008, 11:55:11 AM
Quote from: Krandall on August 19, 2008, 10:31:37 AM
Quote from: troywcc on August 18, 2008, 09:39:55 PM
Screw this air filter shit, I'm gonna install a 9' tall snorkel and not run a filter :)
You just gotta worry about sucking in birds :lol:
:rofl: 9ft!!!!!
Add a sail & the wind to your back :thumbs:
Yeah but birds will easily be cleaned out, plus it will fit under all the bridges no problem :thumbs:
Quote from: preddy08 on August 19, 2008, 07:50:28 AM
Quote from: 1FST690 on August 18, 2008, 09:20:38 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on August 18, 2008, 09:29:21 AM
Quote from: maxx on August 18, 2008, 09:03:33 AM
Are we suppose to assume that a pleated paper is better than a gause cotton filter, goes against everything we've been told.
Coming from the 7.3 liter diesel performance world I would 100% agree with that. They had a bad time with K&N filters "dusting" the turbos. When people started using paper filters such as what comes in the Sever Duty Filter kit that ford offers the turbos were in alot better shape. Those sever duty kits that ford offers is what the government ran in all there military vehicles in service in middle east. That right there would tell you about the filtering capibility of paper vs K&N.
I agree and disagree with the statement above:
K&N filters are horible for 2 reasons in a turbo diesel application.
1 they are only 96% efficient to 1 micron
2 A diesel engine of say 360 cu.in. uses approcimatly 1400 CFM of air every crank revolution
Donaldson filters, also refered as the ford severe duty filters are wonderful at trapping dirt. The are horrible at airflow. They have a triangular shaped "air passages"in them and air goes into one then has to change dirrection to go into another. This is the reason they are so effiecient at trapping dirt. It really has nothing to do with filter media. Donaldson filters are not very good on an engine either due to very high EGT's that they contribute to. You can take a bone stock truck, install a pyro and change nothing else but te airfilter to a Donaldson and see a 2-300 degree increase in EGT. This is also very hard on the turbo and pistons/rings.
Probably the best filter application that is a good comprimise for a TD app. is and AFE in the synthetic dryflow filter line. They filter just over 99% down to one micron and still have very good airflow numbers.
Airfilter technology is a comprimise between air flow and filtration. It always has been and it always will be. I do also agree that an overcleaned filter is worthless as is one that is not completely dry before re-oiling
Where did you get this information? The guys running the AIS intake on the 7.3 liter diesels saw a DROP in EGT's. The AIS intake is what the safer guys would run, that did'nt want to run a full on open intake.
Sorry Kenny, I thought that the AIS used a paper filter with a foam wrap.
My information comes from doing diesel performance professionaly for the last 10 years. I was refering to the Donaldson Sever duty filter seeing a rise in EGT. I am not familiar with the AIS intake, but there are a lot of filters on the market and we sell what we feel is the best for performance, which is as I stated a compromise. That being said we sell AFE stg. II in either the standard 6ply cotton gause or the dryflow. The newest Afe's with the exception of the Powerstroke filters have an almost inclosed airbox. We live in the high desert so we have a sandy type terrain and not much in the way of mud/rain. We use an S/B intake which is slightly better than a stock airbox for our customers that live in the muddy/rainy country. I do have to say that most of our customers are one of 2 types: Heavy towers, ie: over 23k or dragracers
I was'nt questioning your credibility, just wondering where you got your information.
So we agree to agree...lol ???
Quote from: preddy08 on August 19, 2008, 08:57:34 PM
I was'nt questioning your credibility, just wondering where you got your information.
So we agree to agree...lol ???
Yes, we agree to agree :rofl: I guess re-reading what I quoted, I agreed with more than I disagreed :rofl: :rofl: :thumbs:
Quote from: preddy08 on August 19, 2008, 08:57:34 PM
So we agree to agree...lol ???
That's funny stuff right there :clap:
Quote from: 1FST690 on August 19, 2008, 09:15:45 PM
Quote from: preddy08 on August 19, 2008, 08:57:34 PM
I was'nt questioning your credibility, just wondering where you got your information.
So we agree to agree...lol ???
Yes, we agree to agree :rofl: I guess re-reading what I quoted, I agreed with more than I disagreed :rofl: :rofl: :thumbs:
:clap:
I'm not sure what the argument is but I 'm gonna have to disagree here.
Quote from: troywcc on August 20, 2008, 07:56:21 AM
I'm not sure what the argument is but I 'm gonna have to disagree here.
I think were arguing about who is righter.... ???
Drrr, I'm more righter than yous guys. :rofl:
In that case, I will concur :thumbs:
Alls I gotta say is.. don't suck no damn birds into your intakes and you won't have majore flow issues. 8)
:lol:
I hit a flock of Doves in Baja. First about two days later the smell of decomp set it. Found one bird cooked on the radiator. Then found one between the camper shell and the truck. Then the old f350 Diesel started running like crap. Took it in for service and they found another very rotten dove up my air intake by the filter. So it happens! PS never had good luck with K&N,s. Went to foam and paper years ago.
Quote from: fire raptor on September 10, 2008, 06:55:27 PM
I hit a flock of Doves in Baja. First about two days later the smell of decomp set it. Found one bird cooked on the radiator. Then found one between the camper shell and the truck. Then the old f350 Diesel started running like crap. Took it in for service and they found another very rotten dove up my air intake by the filter. So it happens! PS never had good luck with K&N,s. Went to foam and paper years ago.
lol :rofl:
I guess I hit a pheasant between a chick and full grown. was sittin rotted near my intake on the scion. :puke:
I ran the K&N @ silver lake this last weekend. Granted it was wet there so not much chance for dust... (and I only rode 1 day) but I checked my intake boot and it appears she held up fine. :thumbs:
I removed my airbox and intake and it was filthy all the way to my throttle body. I will never run a K&N filter again on anything i own. They are garbage. Even with an outerware.
My gytr intake was letting dirt into my intake as well.I had dust on the inside of my intake. I think no matter what filter you run your going to pass some dust through. I also think that sealing around the intake with some silicone may help a little. JMO. I dont think anything is 100% air tight so some dust is going to pass through.I personally have never had a bad experiance with a K&N,and i dont think our raptors are sucking the CFM'S through that a turbo diesel would be either.However im not doubting this test that was conducted,I believe the test was accurate,Im just saying in my area the conditions are differant.
Ive never had a problem with pro design setup w/K&N . I always cleaned it, oiled it and even reached as far into the intake tube as i could and wiped it to see if there was any dirt. So yesterday i decided to take my intake tube off to see if there was any dirt in it. To my surprise it was filthy the butterfly and the opening on the throttle body was caked with black crud. Where i ride it can become really dusty but i thought a K&N with outerwares would filter that. Guess i was wrong. Looks like ill be going to a foam filter. If you ride in dusty conditions and use K&N you might want to take off your intake tube and check. Im glad i did.
And K&N's warranty does not cover offroad use with their filters.
WHAT IS NOT COVERED BY OUR WARRANTY
Any K&N Air Filter used for 1: any type of racing or competition; 2: any off-road use, custom or modified applications; 3: any off-road or dual sport motorcycle/ ATV use; 4: any illegal highway use, marine, or industrial applications. All K&N Air Filters not covered by our million mile warranty are warranted against defective materials or workmanship for one year from date of purchase with no mileage limitation. This includes K&N Air Filters sold for ATV's and off-highway or dual-purpose motorcycles.
And a quote from their testing procedure.
As has become customary in the automotive industry, we use Coarse Test Dust for gasoline engine air filters and Fine Test Dust for diesel engine air filters. This practice of using different grades of test dust developed because Diesel engines require higher levels of filtration because they operate at much higher compression and require finer tolerances than Gasoline engines.
usefull info. THX a lot
k&n's are not recommended for turbo deisels in dust and sand, according to some, they suck soo much air it forces particle through. your raptor will never suck as much air, so you shouldnt have a problem. i thought the same thing about k&n's when i read something simular to that. my cousin is a master tech and he told me its mainly turbo deisels people complain about, but its not that common. I think you should always run a pre-filter anyways, I run one all the time, have never had a problem in 3 years.
Ive had good luck with my K&N. I clean it once every 50 hours or so lol and i ride in decently dusty conditions, and when i did my winter rebuild, The engine had 500 hours on it, and was in really nice condition. the TB had a small amount of dust in it and the piston was clean on top. I would say dont clean them every ride and you should be good.
Im currently running a UNI filter on my Raptor 700.
What do you guys think of this filter?
I allways used a Pro Design air filter and was very happy with it.
Quote from: Hafbo on January 26, 2009, 07:12:46 AM
Im currently running a UNI filter on my Raptor 700.
What do you guys think of this filter?
I allways used a Pro Design air filter and was very happy with it.
Depending on the conditions I run my uni filter. I love it. Is yours the 2 stage one? (2 foam pieces. One inside of the other)
I run that one in the summer when its super dusty out as foam traps dirt better than the k&n. :thumbs:
I leave in sandy and dusty area and when using the K&N i use to find dust in the throttle body. Since i am using twin air filters the intake remains clean. only one problem it really affect the performance. So i need to find a big twin air filter to can install it on my trinity intake...
Francky,are you still running an airbox? if so try the EHS lid with the K&N set-up, or you can cut your airbox and it helps the dust swirl out of there without going to and thru the filter
I was running the stock air box. I will look into this ehs thing. I really need to get more ponnies for my race. I have one year to get the rappy ready so i am gonna try a lot of things.
This is what I did, and I find I have less dust now, than when running the box with just the lid off :clap:
http://www.raptorsource.com/forum/index.php?topic=3390.0
Check this out....There is a direct correlation between amount of dirt passed vs overall airflow on filters of a similar size, but different materials. The one standout seems to be synthetic nanofiber, but finding something for the Raptor is tough at the moment. Colorado700R's dust shield is a good idea, and other tricks, such as an oversize outerwear with a home built internal support to hold it off the main filter.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=66&Itemid=76
So basically.. for more power/flow. You're risking longevity of the motor..
Quote from: Krandall on April 06, 2009, 01:00:35 PM
So basically.. for more power/flow. You're risking longevity of the motor..
Kinda. Everything is a compromise in stock form. You can spend some time engineering a first class setup and get the power without a real compromise in longevity. It can be painful, but it can also pay off in spades :thumbs:
For rallies you cannot compromise longevity.
The team I am racing with has around 20 to 25 bikes racing every year (Most Honda CRF450). Every time a guy put a K&N for the rally his engine don't finish the race
So K&N for fun ride no problem, but for rally NO WAY.
I have found that the TRX450 twin air power flow filter has a 100mm rubber diameter. It almost fit the trinity intake. I'll have my trinity modified to 100mm. (but I think i am gonna have to carve the air box)
One of the things I like to do is use an oversize outerwear and attach fishing sinkers to the inside. As you are beating and buzzing around the track, the sinkers will vibrate and shake all the dry accumulated dirt and mud from the outerwear. Kind of a self cleaning setup. The looser the outerwear, the better. If the cover isn't tight against the filter it reduces the amount of dirt(or water) that is trying to suck directly through the filter from the cover, making it easier to trap the lower speed particles. :)
So... could the answer to this be.. Since people don't like Foam because it's so restrictive.. modifying the air box or finding a new airbox setup to allow for a MUCH bigger foam filter? Reducing the velocity that air is sucked through reducing the particles speed being sucked through thus having a much lower chance of it being sucked through the filter?
Correctamundo! :thumbs: