Poll: Seriously, who are you voting for???

[Krandall]

I'm glad we have 9 pages of debate without us killing each other. Thanks for all who have contributed thus far by respecting others opinions and keeping a level head.

[RaptorRandy]

Some of those could be true, or even all.  But I would want to check those facts first.  I'll make sure to look into that.

The ten point plan came right off Obamas website months ago....... It was removed once it became an issue



Pretty much all liberal Demos are in line with this thinking......

[RaptorRandy]

I've been lookin into it.. and some of it is true.. But...


This is from Snopes.com

The Facts
On his campaign Web site, Obama says he respects the Second Amendment right to bear arms and "will protect the rights of hunters and other law-abiding Americans to purchase, own, transport and use guns." As CNN reported, Obama's running mate, Sen. Joe Biden, told supporters at a Virginia rally on Saturday, September 20, "I guarantee you, Barack Obama ain't taking my shotguns. So don't buy that malarkey. They're going to start peddling that to you. I've got two and if he tries to fool with my Beretta, he's got a problem."

Obama supports reinstating former President Bill Clinton's ban on assault rifles, closing what he calls a loophole that lets people buy handguns at gun shows without the same rigorous background checks as at stores and what his Web site calls "commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals who shouldn't have them." He has publicly supported the right of local governments to have handgun bans and, as a state senator, cosponsored a failed bill that would have limited handgun sales to one per month.

To support its claims, the NRA ad prints three references at the bottom of the screen — a 2005 Senate vote, a 2004 Senate debate with Republican opponent Alan Keyes and a 1999 article in the Chicago Defender. The vote, which the ad calls an effort "to ban virtually all deer-hunting ammunition," was an unsuccessful effort to expand the legal definition of armor-piercing ammunition to include pistol and rifle rounds that the U.S. attorney general deemed more likely to penetrate body armor than a normal round. In a Senate speech, the amendment's sponsor, Sen. Edward Kennedy, said it was not aimed at ammunition used for hunting. In addition, the vote itself wouldn't have singled out any ammunition — instead leaving the decision on what, if anything, to ban up to the attorney general.

The claim Obama would push a "ban on shotguns and rifles most of us use for hunting" is pegged to this quote from the 2004 debate: "Mr. Keyes does not believe in any limits, from what I can tell, with respect to the possession of guns, including assault weapons that have only one purpose, to kill people. I think it is a scandal that this president did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban."

The 1999 article in the Chicago Defender paraphrases a speech by Obama — then a state senator — in which it says he promoted a plan to "increase the federal taxes by 500 percent on the sale of firearm, ammunition [sic] — weapons he says are most commonly used in firearm deaths." Obama's exact words aren't documented. But, as a state senator, Obama would have had no control over federal taxes and, as a U.S. senator, he has neither introduced nor suggested such a plan.

snopes has been proven wrong many times

[Colorado700R]

And I looked through Obama's thing he's saying he's going to do. the link that randy posted.
I couldn't find where it really said anything about shutting down places. I saw restoring wet lands. ?

That link I posted about vote scoring was linked from the Thrillcraft site Randy.  One pours money to the other to achieve there end goal.  Do I believe ALL dems want to shut our riding areas down?  No.  Do I believe the dem side receives the bulk of the lobbying and special interest moneys from these activists?  Yes.  

I hate hippies  


signed,

Thrillcraft Elitist- Suck it Trebek

[Krandall]

And I looked through Obama's thing he's saying he's going to do. the link that randy posted.
I couldn't find where it really said anything about shutting down places. I saw restoring wet lands. ?

That link I posted about vote scoring was linked from the Thrillcraft site Randy.  One pours money to the other to achieve there end goal.  Do I believe ALL dems want to shut our riding areas down?  No.  Do I believe the dem side receives the bulk of the lobbying and special interest moneys from these activists?  Yes.  

I hate hippies  


signed,

Thrillcraft Elitist- Suck it Trebek

when I clicked on that link.
It opened up adobe. and then my computer crashed and I said f*ck you aaron....

[socalrappy700]

Bottom line, don't believe what they say, look at what they do.  I don't believe Obama when he says he's for gun right when the anti gun people are lining his pockets.

[Krandall]

going w/ the 500% increase in federal taxes. I don't think obama even as president has any regulation on federal tax does he?

[socalrappy700]

with the help of the house and senate he does.  They can pass the bill and he can sign it.

[Flynbyu]

Are you kidding me?  My old company was based in Canada and you should of heard the people complain.  We had one office pushing to get on the healthcare plan that the US employees had since they were close to the border.  Ask anyone who lives on a border town, the come over hear to get what they need. 

Going to the hospital doesn't cost them like it does us though. The care we get here isn't the greatest, and it still costs us out the ass.

My wife gets allergy shots once a week. She is supposed to pay $10 per shot, and insurance covers the rest.

I got a bill yesterday for $1634.80 for shots, and her colonoscopy. $1100 was the colonoscopy, and insurance is calling it "Exlporatory" instead of what I call prevenative maintenance. Our deductible is $500, and we've taken care of our part. It just always seems an uphill battle for insurance to cover their part. I got a bill for me being sick in February (required two doctor visits) for $600 and some change. I paid my co-pay at the time of visit (must may or they won't treat you). The insurance is failing to pay on shit from February. I called the insurance company and raised nine kinds of hell, and asked the clinic to re file the claim. I thought to myself, if my wife and I lived in Canada and had the flu, this wouldn't have cost me near as much.

~Brian

[Colorado700R]

And I looked through Obama's thing he's saying he's going to do. the link that randy posted.
I couldn't find where it really said anything about shutting down places. I saw restoring wet lands. ?

That link I posted about vote scoring was linked from the Thrillcraft site Randy.  One pours money to the other to achieve there end goal.  Do I believe ALL dems want to shut our riding areas down?  No.  Do I believe the dem side receives the bulk of the lobbying and special interest moneys from these activists?  Yes.  

I hate hippies  


signed,

Thrillcraft Elitist- Suck it Trebek

when I clicked on that link.
It opened up adobe. and then my computer crashed and I said f*ck you aaron....

Really?  It's a real link!!

sorry bout the crash 

[socalrappy700]

Are you kidding me?  My old company was based in Canada and you should of heard the people complain.  We had one office pushing to get on the healthcare plan that the US employees had since they were close to the border.  Ask anyone who lives on a border town, the come over hear to get what they need. 

Going to the hospital doesn't cost them like it does us though. The care we get here isn't the greatest, and it still costs us out the ass.

My wife gets allergy shots once a week. She is supposed to pay $10 per shot, and insurance covers the rest.

I got a bill yesterday for $1634.80 for shots, and her colonoscopy. $1100 was the colonoscopy, and insurance is calling it "Exlporatory" instead of what I call prevenative maintenance. Our deductible is $500, and we've taken care of our part. It just always seems an uphill battle for insurance to cover their part. I got a bill for me being sick in February (required two doctor visits) for $600 and some change. I paid my co-pay at the time of visit (must may or they won't treat you). The insurance is failing to pay on shit from February. I called the insurance company and raised nine kinds of hell, and asked the clinic to re file the claim. I thought to myself, if my wife and I lived in Canada and had the flu, this wouldn't have cost me near as much.

~Brian

You really need to look at the health care system up there, its no peach.  And they pay out the nose in taxes for it.  Even the CEO put himself as a US employee so he could get the US health care.  Yes our system sucks....thanks to the insurance companies and the lawyers but we still have it better then our northern neighbors.  Most of them would rather pay CASH here then use their system.

[socalrappy700]

Are you kidding me?  My old company was based in Canada and you should of heard the people complain.  We had one office pushing to get on the healthcare plan that the US employees had since they were close to the border.  Ask anyone who lives on a border town, the come over hear to get what they need. 

Going to the hospital doesn't cost them like it does us though. The care we get here isn't the greatest, and it still costs us out the ass.

My wife gets allergy shots once a week. She is supposed to pay $10 per shot, and insurance covers the rest.

I got a bill yesterday for $1634.80 for shots, and her colonoscopy. $1100 was the colonoscopy, and insurance is calling it "Exlporatory" instead of what I call prevenative maintenance. Our deductible is $500, and we've taken care of our part. It just always seems an uphill battle for insurance to cover their part. I got a bill for me being sick in February (required two doctor visits) for $600 and some change. I paid my co-pay at the time of visit (must may or they won't treat you). The insurance is failing to pay on shit from February. I called the insurance company and raised nine kinds of hell, and asked the clinic to re file the claim. I thought to myself, if my wife and I lived in Canada and had the flu, this wouldn't have cost me near as much.

~Brian

Also, this has NOTHING to do with our health care system and everything to do with your provider.  Take it up with your employer for giving you a crappy insurance company.  I haven't had to deal with those type of problems with my provider and they have done an ok job with all of Jenee's care while she has been pregnant. 

[Flynbyu]

Bottom line, don't believe what they say, look at what they do.  I don't believe Obama when he says he's for gun right when the anti gun people are lining his pockets.

Nothing wrong with owning firearms, but in my opinion we need better control of guns in our country. I own two firearms myself, but there's people who go crazy with firearms and have too many in my opinion. It's one thing if they are displayed on a wall as memorabilia (Civil War era, WWII era stuff, etc.) but for one person to have a David Koresh size arsenal is just ignorant in my opinion.

Where I think we need gun control is at Gun Shows. When sales take place at a gun show, some perceive a "loophole" in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), although these laws have never applied to individual-to-individual sales of personal firearms. United States federal law requires persons engaged in interstate firearm commerce, or who are in the business of selling firearms, to hold a Federal Firearms License and to perform checks prior to transferring a firearm, but there is an exemption for private sales by individuals who are "not engaged in the business" of selling firearms, or who only make "occasional" sales. Unlicensed private sellers are permitted by law to sell privately-owned guns at gun shows, or at private locations, in 24 states (as of 1998).

I really hate that the Bush Administration let the Brady Bill expire. We do not need automatic weapons floating around the general public.

~Brian

[Gunz]

Are you kidding me?  My old company was based in Canada and you should of heard the people complain.  We had one office pushing to get on the healthcare plan that the US employees had since they were close to the border.  Ask anyone who lives on a border town, the come over hear to get what they need. 

Going to the hospital doesn't cost them like it does us though. The care we get here isn't the greatest, and it still costs us out the ass.

My wife gets allergy shots once a week. She is supposed to pay $10 per shot, and insurance covers the rest.

I got a bill yesterday for $1634.80 for shots, and her colonoscopy. $1100 was the colonoscopy, and insurance is calling it "Exlporatory" instead of what I call prevenative maintenance. Our deductible is $500, and we've taken care of our part. It just always seems an uphill battle for insurance to cover their part. I got a bill for me being sick in February (required two doctor visits) for $600 and some change. I paid my co-pay at the time of visit (must may or they won't treat you). The insurance is failing to pay on shit from February. I called the insurance company and raised nine kinds of hell, and asked the clinic to re file the claim. I thought to myself, if my wife and I lived in Canada and had the flu, this wouldn't have cost me near as much.

~Brian

I swear I hate insurance companies for that very reason. Between them and lawyers, our health system is f**k'd. I still wouldn't touch Canada with a 10 ft pole. Sure it might be way cheap, but the hell if I want to wait in line for 6 months to get my gall bladder removed(insert your favorite surgery here) because there is line of people that need the same operation. Who the hell wants to wait by the phone for an endless amount of time for some Dr office to call and say we have an opening today, can you be here in 5min? Sure as hell not me. Take that $hit out now, I'll deal with the consequences if Im still alive when its over with.

As far as the allergy shots, that is another bs over priced scam and a half. Last time I went to get a shot they wanted $900/wk to give them to me. WTF, its a shot, it takes 5 min to conjure up and 5 seconds to stick me. Thats crazy talk.

[Krandall]

any kind of shot is expensive for the reason being. Not only do the doctors have to get paid for their time, but the company making the juice need to get paid too.... They could charge 10,000 and people are still going to get them. at their mercy