Re-ring pics...........you decide.

[Kenny]

 I can see that.....At the same time these guys are digging for every last ounce of power for their money. That is the first question out of everyones mouth. Watch what happens now when people ask about gapless top rings. Some moron will chime in like a pro, talking trash about them. The gapless ring is not the problem. It's the oil ring that is not suitable for this application. If the oil rings were doing their job there would be no oil to get past the top ring

[preddy08]

Just a little protection for Kenny.

I would not worry if you have the kit from Kenny. Hes gone through all the red tape of getting the proper rings. Raptor cylinders need more tension on the oil rings to keep the oil down. This is something Kennys found out and something that the people at Total Seal do not know. There in lays my problem.

[preddy08]

"The hardest thing about troubleshooting these problems long distance is that I only know one person that even knows his actual piston to wall clearance(Raptor Randy). "

What do you mean by actual piston to wall clearance? Both Bo and myself checked the piston to wall clearance and its with in spec.

[air]

You can add me.
I checked the piston to cylinder clearance, I also use a scale to pull the feeler gauge.

[Kenny]

You can add me.
I checked the piston to cylinder clearance, I also use a scale to pull the feeler gauge.

"The hardest thing about troubleshooting these problems long distance is that I only know one person that even knows his actual piston to wall clearance(Raptor Randy). "

What do you mean by actual piston to wall clearance? Both Bo and myself checked the piston to wall clearance and its with in spec.

That makes 4  Good job guys. If you still have the measurements, what piston to wall clearance did you start with, and if it was a used cylinder, what kind of runout were you seeing?

Just a little protection for Kenny.

I would not worry if you have the kit from Kenny. Hes gone through all the red tape of getting the proper rings. Raptor cylinders need more tension on the oil rings to keep the oil down. This is something Kennys found out and something that the people at Total Seal do not know. There in lays my problem.

I think Total Seal knows how to fix it, I just think they just didn't get the proper input. This is a situation where you add radial thickness to either the second, or the oil rings to get proper control. Seeing a puff of smoke to a racer can be a good sign that you are at the limit of ring tension and have the least friction possible. If it oils to the point of fouling plugs or losing power, you can add tension to the rings by adding to radial thickness. For example, you could replace a ring with .160" radial thickness with a ring with .175"..... Running two compression rings will allow you to run less of a tension increase because it is basically using the second ring as a third oil scraper. Two ring pistons will require far more tension for oil control because of the obvious lack of one compression ring. 

Alright guys, I'm warmed up now! Anybody want to know the intricacies of gas porting, and the balance required? Side clearance theories? I'm ready

[preddy08]

Dude, go on! I could listen to you for days 

[dgreenbluet]

this has been a very informative thread

[Kenny]

Dude, go on! I could listen to you for days 

this has been a very informative thread

Thanks guys. It is a constant battle with guys spouting stuff like "this ring causes wear" , "this kind of ring flutters at high RPM" or "X rings cause the engine to burn oil". Their intentions are probably good, but they usually have no idea what they are talking about.

I will give you an example; All rings use combustion pressure for a good seal. This is usually accomplished by running a ring side clearance of .002-.004". This will work acceptably well with standard tension thick rings without too much ring flutter at high RPM. It is reliable, cheap and maximizes profits with very little fuss.

Now we try to improve this package to get a few more horses and better ring stability so we narrow the ring land to achieve let's say .0012-.0015" side clearance, which makes it so we can keep a narrower ring under control at High RPM, while having less drag (more power). So how do we control blow-by with this narrow clearance that will obviously reduce combustion pressure behind the ring that is so vital to ring seal ? You guessed it, gas porting.

Many found that the gas porting on my pistons had little burrs where the cutter had kinda "smeared" the material. It turns out that this is extremely common with gas ported pistons, but most people never notice it. Why? Because they have .002-.004" side clearance . Cleaning this up is just routine piston prep. I have found careful razor blade trimming to work best for me

Now there is the question of cylinder wear. Did you guys know that there are many grades of sleeve material? The difference between them is huge! It is very hard to keep an open mind when you have problems. You can't just throw it away and say it didn't work. You have to figure out why. It may be even harder to take the time to figure out why something worked really well. You have to do it to have consistent results.

[Krandall]

what's the decision shawn. gonna try another total seal or go conventional?

[preddy08]

I'm going to go to convential for now, just for my trip to LS today. I may look into Total Seal in the future, when time allows.