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Raptor 700 Information => 700 Suspension Work => Topic started by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 07:57:51 AM

Title: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 07:57:51 AM
Here's the place to share your ice tire knowledge.  I'm always looking for new ideas and tricks so post em' up and lets find a good combination!!

Sully
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:10:57 AM
On the rears I started with Cheng-shin C-826 18x9.5x8 tires.  The first set I built I used Golds and cut the leading edge of the knob for a smaller profile.  They worked ok but not great.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:19:27 AM
The next set of tires I used Kold Kutters.  I still trimmed the leading edge of each knob and nutted the studs inside the tires.  I also put a 15 degree angle on each stud going into the knob. These worked much better.  You want to angle the stud so when it contacts the ice the head is actually tipped back and the leading edge contacts the ice first.  if you put them on backwards the stud head will fill up with ice and you'll lose all traction.  Make sure you're on the throttle thru the corners or you'll quickly lose traction.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:25:10 AM
  Now the last set I did I used Kold Kutter Kanadians 1-1/2" screws.  I trimmed all 4 edges of every knob and nutted the studs.  I again used the 15 degree angle and tuned them for turning more than straight ahead running.  They work awesome.  After 2 seasons on them I'm starting to lose some studs, they are pulling out with the nut still on them so the next set of tires will have an extra 1/4" of rubber inside the tire and a new trick I learned installing the studs.  ;)
Here's some pics of the last set, the studs I used, and the nuts I used.

Sully
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:26:24 AM
More pics
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:27:35 AM
Some more
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:29:30 AM
  Here's the nuts I used, they go on pretty easy with a nut-driver and cut their own threads.  Of course you need to protect your studs so make (or buy) a set of skins to keep the studs off the cement at all times!!
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:30:57 AM
For front tires I originally went with Kold Kutters and didn't nut the screws.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:34:14 AM
My current set I used Bridgestone DH05 (dirt hooks) and they are AWESOME!  I also used Kanadians and nutted each stud.  These tires needed to be balanced on the rims since they're not a high-speed tire but they hook up great.  I took my time marking the stud pattern and didn't over-stud them.  My front end never washes out and I can stop on a dime if needed.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:39:35 AM
Now for some other tricks that I found help on the ice.....

Every rider I ran with was hanging off the bike in the corners and had their inside leg flopping in the air.  I built a set of foot-peg extensions and now I get great securement in the corners and can actually push the inside down with my foot while cornering. :thumbs:
 
   Some undercoating paint or bed-liner works well for a tough and good looking finish.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:44:53 AM
  The next problem was a little more tricky.   I still didn't have enough traction in the rear and the bike scaled out badly with too much weight up front.  The engine on a Rappy is set forward so it's hard to get more weight on the back tires.   I bought another swing arm and removed 2" from it.  It made a huge difference and the handeling is still pretty good.  Some bed-liner finished it off nicely.  :)
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:46:30 AM
A few more pics of the swinger
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:47:30 AM
Finished, painted, and mounted.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:51:38 AM
Now she still needed to be lowered down a bit.  I was too cheap to buy a lowering kit and I had a spare rear link so here's what we did.  :)   I have a buddy at a machine shop so he actually did this for me.   I did need to cut away a bit of the rear link for clearance but she's nice and low now with good suspension.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:52:18 AM
Here's where I needed to grind a bit off the link.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:54:24 AM
  Here's the difference between summer and winter riding.   I run +2 LT arms in the winter with stock shocks which lower it down nicely and still give me great suspension.   :thumbs:
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 08:57:09 AM
  Another problem I had was sore arms from constantly pulling myself back up on the bike.  I have a lot of torque and I was always sliding off the back of the seat.  I bought another complete seat, removed the cover, and cut the foam down to the shape of my ass.  Now I sit lower and never slide back so my arms last much longer before I get pumped up.  :)
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 09:02:31 AM
Another issue I had was my wrists were getting twisted up in the corners with the bars turned all the way to the side so I needed a different angle on the bars for a better grip.   I remove my grip protectors in the winter and put 2 short bar extensions on the ends of my grips so I can grab them in the corners.  I point the left one straight down and hold on to that in the left hand corners so my wrist can turn naturally.   I use the right one to keep my hand from sliding off the bars.
   I run gauntlets on my grips to keep the wind off my hands and I installed hand warmers in the grips so I can ride in -20 degrees with just summer riding gloves.  I'm a wimp but I can also do more laps because my hands aren't frozen, my arms aren't pumped up, and my bike rides smooth.  :)
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 09:08:58 AM
  One last trick I did...    Since we're riding in very cold weather we often have to jump and charge batteries.  Getting to the Rappy's battery is a pain so I ran a set of extension studs to the rear of the bike under the seat.  Now I can jump and charge the battery easilly.

  Also is a pic of my hand warmer switch and my speed sensor cut-out switch.
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 09:13:49 AM
  Now some current pics of the beast.  Pics and videos can be seen at:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Badwater-Ice-Racing-Iron-Mountain-Mi/142792215754000


Please add your tricks, tips and info as we can all use the help!!


Sully
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: Krandall on January 20, 2011, 10:25:15 AM
Freaking sweet man!!! how much do you figure you have into each tire for studd cost?

I saw one other person on here do something cool w/ his tires. Not a racing solution, but...

Hefe used snowmobile studs on the tires. I think they were 1.5 inches long, and stuck out maybe 3/4" out of the tread. I've been looking at doim somthing to my old YFZ tires. don't have any ice races around me, so don't need anything crazy, but it'd be nice to have something a "little more".

Always a blast running on the river in the winter after the snowmobiles track it down and give you a nice hardpack to run on :)
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 11:42:29 AM
  I've got about $600 into all 4 tires complete + a lot of time.  Cutting lugs takes about 3 hours per tire, then another 3-4 hours to stud and nut each one including mounting and dis-mounting.  Studding should be done on an inflated tire.
    Snowmobile studs are sweet but they also create a lot of drag at high speeds.  They'd be cool for river-riding and hitting the slop though.
   These tires are only good for relatively clean ice.  I cut the knobs to give me a smaller foot-print in the slop and it helps the knobs to cut thru and push down to clean ice.  :)
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: Peelz on January 20, 2011, 12:15:17 PM
FYI-to new guys....When I first did mine, I had no clue about this sport. I spent MAYBE 15 minutes on the job LOL

I bought 3/8 hex head machine screws and stuck em in the stock 660 tires. I didnt want to ruin my stockers. THis does not work :lol: Fronts will stay in but the rears will go bye bye. Screws have to go all the way in the tire, and even have a nut hold them on inside the tire.

FAIL. :lol: one lap around the track i was sliding all over. But I could steer like muthafuka! :rofl:
Title: Re: Ice racing tires
Post by: SULLY0556 on January 20, 2011, 12:55:26 PM
  It's suprising how many peole come out with just that on their bikes!  Then they bitch when the plow the banks.  All they need to do is ask someone and they'd save a bunch of time and $$.  :lol: