i'm thinking if i did decide to do some internal mods, i would do this:
11:1 piston, P&P head, +2 or +3 TB, stage 2 or 3 cam, and probably some HD valve springs.
my questions:
with a stage 2 or 3 cam do i have to worry about clearance issues?
would i need a set of HD valve springs?
which brands should i get of all that stuff?
would i have to much power to run a stock length swingarm with this set-up?
how much money would i be looking at to get this done?
does anyone have a fuel map for something like this?
and how realiable would this set-up be?
stage 2 and three Hotcams are drop in.
Hotcams suggests upgraded valve springs if you modify the ignition curve. I say you're already there, you might as well.
lots of opinions about brands/styles. I would call our sponsors and do your own research
stock swinger will work, but a +2 will be preferred
P&P <350 Cam <150 springs ??? piston < 200 total 750-900ish dependent on your choices of parts
TB ??? talk to kenny at KDS
The maps will depend on your parts selection, every combo requires runs a touch diffrently :thumbs:
Hot Cams are all drop in like Aaron said. If you end up going x-4 the rockers will need to be clearanced. I would suggest that since you are there. Replace the springs.
As far as to much power... I don't think so. I've been running on my stock swing-arm since I broke my swinger @ silver lake. It runs fine. I mean, the +2 keeps the front down better. But it's deffinately runnable. :thumbs:
what do you guys actually think about the X-4 cams? would that be worth it? would it still be realiable? keep in mind these will be the only internal mods that i do.
I think a X4 is an overkill for you.. Unless ur gonna run a corrected deck height piston and Bigger Valves.. You need Springs for X2-X4.. You can run Hot Cam Stage 2-3 with stock springs.. It all depends on how much Money u want to spend.. I will have a X2 and springs for sale soon..
what's the difference between an X-2 and a stage 2? do i have to cleanace anything to run an X-2?
I have the X-4 and love it.It pulls like a mofo from off idle to redline :thumbs: as far as X-2 you need modifications to the rocker arm and good valve springs. as for the stage 2 its just a drop in cam and works well with say 11:1 compression piston. i would use better springs for the stage 2 anyway though cause when i had one i still had valve float. The X-2 and X-4 work better with more compression and bigger bore and bigger stroke motors and ported and polished heads plus oversized valves. Hope this helps
so i should just go with a stage 3 then?
another question i'm just curious about. does the raptor engine sound loopy like a V8 when you put a cam in?
i havent noticed any noise differance in mine. i think the satge3 would be a good cam to go with and better springs just because. velociraptor told me to upgrade my springs when i installed my stage2 and 11:1 piston.I didnt do it and had valve float. So if i was to do that build over again i would do the springs :thumbs:JMO
yeah i plan to put HD springs in there too. :thumbs:
Quote from: 1badazz_700r on February 15, 2009, 06:50:00 AM
I have the X-4 and love it.It pulls like a mofo from off idle to redline :thumbs: as far as X-2 you need modifications to the rocker arm and good valve springs. as for the stage 2 its just a drop in cam and works well with say 11:1 compression piston. i would use better springs for the stage 2 anyway though cause when i had one i still had valve float. The X-2 and X-4 work better with more compression and bigger bore and bigger stroke motors and ported and polished heads plus oversized valves. Hope this helps
When I was running the 6-mod setup, I got valve float with the stage 2 as well. So when I had Bo do my porting, I had him do springs at the same time. I only had float problems in the sand, never in the dirt, so that is something to think about.
I have been running my current setup on the stock swinger without any trouble, but if a good deal on a +2 came along, I'd probably grab it.
What is your mix of riding like? Sand, desert, woods, etc? How much time in each?
i ride mostly trails/woods but i hit the sand i'll say about 2-3 times a year. so what do you think? and what is valve float and how can you tell it's happening? is it when the valves don't close all the way? why would sand give you valve float but not dirt?
and which piston should i pick? CP or JE? which one is actual compression? i heard that one company actually doesn't make the compression they claim, i can't remember which one though. what size should i pick? 102MM or 105MM?
Quote from: warren on February 15, 2009, 11:48:29 AM
i ride mostly trails/woods but i hit the sand i'll say about 2-3 times a year. so what do you think? and what is valve float and how can you tell it's happening? is it when the valves don't close all the way? why would sand give you valve float but not dirt?
and which piston should i pick? CP or JE? which one is actual compression? i heard that one company actually doesn't make the compression they claim, i can't remember which one though. what size should i pick? 102MM or 105MM?
you would want 102 unless you want bigger bore also id go with kds which is made by cp or a re cp piston both are corrected height so true compression
Quote from: warren on February 15, 2009, 11:48:29 AM
i ride mostly trails/woods but i hit the sand i'll say about 2-3 times a year. so what do you think? and what is valve float and how can you tell it's happening? is it when the valves don't close all the way? why would sand give you valve float but not dirt?
and which piston should i pick? CP or JE? which one is actual compression? i heard that one company actually doesn't make the compression they claim, i can't remember which one though. what size should i pick? 102MM or 105MM?
I'd stick with a stage 2 hotcam for what you do.
Valve Float:
"Valve float is an adverse condition which occurs when the poppet valves on an internal combustion engine valvetrain do not remain in contact with the camshaft lobe during the valve closure phase of the cam lobe profile. This reduces engine efficiency and performance and potentially increases engine emissions.
Valve bounce is a related condition where the valve does not stay seated, due to the combined effects of the valve's inertia and resonance effects of metallic valve springs that effectively reduce the closing force, and allow the valve to re-open partially.
Stiffer valve springs can help prevent valve float and valve bounce, but only at the expense of increased friction losses. Various techniques have been used to offset the effect of stiffer springs, such as dual-spring and progressive-sprung valves, roller-tipped tappets, and pneumatic valves."
Valve float feels (and sounds) like you've hit the rev limiter, the power drops way off.
Supposedly none of the "off the shelf" pistons are actual compression, Wiseco, JE or CP. The new pistons from Kenny and Tim Barker are actual advertised compression. I'd stay 102 unless you cylinder is worn enough to need a bore and sleeve/replate.
Quote from: russ on February 15, 2009, 10:57:03 PM
Supposedly none of the "off the shelf" pistons are actual compression, Wiseco, JE or CP. The new pistons from Kenny and Tim Barker are actual advertised compression. I'd stay 102 unless you cylinder is worn enough to need a bore and sleeve/replate.
Can be seen here: http://www.raptorsource.com/forum/index.php?topic=1892.0
My buddy and I just did a stage 3, KW springs, 11:1 JE piston, dynatek ignition, and port & polish and the bike really flies now!! He dynoed his the other day and put down 64. something hp and 51. something torque. I'm waiting to dyno mine because I want a +3 TB